Just one more reason we have the league's best owner

[Doyle]

But have you gone to ones where you didn't know the deceased? I know I haven't.

Yes distant family members.

[iamhubby1]

Detroit's been "rebuilding" since the 50's

F. U. jk

It may be true. But it was totally uncalled for. Unless you know the circumstances, oh, nevermind. It really is tough defending the Lions.

Panther fans are spoiled. They have been competitive half the time, lost a year to Smitty, and a couple more for Jake. That only leaves a handful of bad seasons. Cry babies all.

The correlation between being successful, and having an elite QB, is staggering. I grew up with a handful of great QBs. Now, half the teams have very good, or better, QBs. And good young QBs are coming out in droves.

(And before anyone goes there. There have always been colleges for guys who wanted to throw the ball trying to get the attention of the NFL that way. No matter what decade you played. If you could throw the ball, the NFL had a place for you.)

Cam is still going to be head and sholders better than any of them. Been waiting my whole life to say that. Never thought I would.

As for the Lions? Stafford has made them relavent. Coinky dinky? I think not.

Hence the GOOOOOOO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[iamhubby1]

THe problem is little about your post is true at all. For starters Delhomme was going to make all the money we had to pay him in 2010 already so we cut him and still had to pay him which was totally stupid. The reason we cut him was so the players who were loyal to him wouldn't back him versus Moore and Clausen and Fox who didn't favor rookies couldn't play him. Whether he played or not he would have been a great mentor to Moore and Clausen. And as bad as he played it wasn't worse than Moore or Clausen. Ever consider that not having Jake to lean on was one of the reasons Moore did so well in 2009 and suddenly was awful in 2010 without him???

Your whole argument just shows why companies and businesses spend millions for media specialists who spin great stories that you just regurgitated in great revisionistic history manner. The problem is that little of it is true at all.

Grasping at straws are we?

So, it is perfectly all right for you to spin history to fit your arguement, but it is a problem when others put their own spin to it?

JR has proven innumeous times the quality of person, and owner, he is. The lock-out debacle aside, you would be hard pressed to find anyone with a bad word to say about him.

So if your animosity is for that reason only. I find it short sighted and rather worrysome. JR has publicly apologized for how he handled that situation, saying he may have over reacted to empending events. If that is not good enough for you, then rant away. But the vast majority are behind the Big Cat, and I don't believe you are going to change that in the slightest.

JR may not be the best owner. But if he is not, he is close. And the only ones who don't think so, are the ones who took Lock-Out Gate a little too personally.

[panthers55]

Grasping at straws are we?

So, it is perfectly all right for you to spin history to fit your arguement, but it is a problem when others put their own spin to it?

JR has proven innumeous times the quality of person, and owner, he is. The lock-out debacle aside, you would be hard pressed to find anyone with a bad word to say about him.

So if your animosity is for that reason only. I find it short sighted and rather worrysome. JR has publicly apologized for how he handled that situation, saying he may have over reacted to empending events. If that is not good enough for you, then rant away. But the vast majority are behind the Big Cat, and I don't believe you are going to change that in the slightest.

JR may not be the best owner. But if he is not, he is close. And the only ones who don't think so, are the ones who took Lock-Out Gate a little too personally.

The difference is that I am not grasping at straws at all but telling the reality of what happened. I am a PSL owner and Panther fan through and through. The difference is that I don't have to look at the whole picture through Carolina Electric Blue shades to be a fan and I can readily see where our flaws are unlike you apparently.

I have already posted that I think JR has done some great things and can be very thoughtful and considerate. I am not mad at him for what he did in 2010 as I know everyone makes mistakes. I am not sugarcoating it or forgetting it either. I support JR as the owner of the Panthers and want him and the team to succeed wonderfully. I don't have an all or nothing attitude here and don't have animosity towards him as an owner or a person. I just don't think he is close to the best owner nor do I think we are close to the best managed team or franchise. Doesn't mean I don't support him or the team. I accept the Panthers as my hometown team with all the warts and issues. I can love something and not have to idealize it.

[iamhubby1]

The difference is that I am not grasping at straws at all but telling the reality of what happened. I am a PSL owner and Panther fan through and through. The difference is that I don't have to look at the whole picture through Carolina Electric Blue shades to be a fan and I can readily see where our flaws are unlike you apparently.

I have already posted that I think JR has done some great things and can be very thoughtful and considerate. I am not mad at him for what he did in 2010 as I know everyone makes mistakes. I am not sugarcoating it or forgetting it either. I support JR as the owner of the Panthers and want him and the team to succeed wonderfully. I don't have an all or nothing attitude here and don't have animosity towards him as an owner or a person. I just don't think he is close to the best owner nor do I think we are close to the best managed team or franchise. Doesn't mean I don't support him or the team. I accept the Panthers as my hometown team with all the warts and issues. I can love something and not have to idealize it.

Hey, not a big deal. I just thought I got a sense of anger about certain things. You ususally are rather even keeled, so I thought I would jump in.

As a PSL owner I can see how you would feel as though you have a vested interest in the Pantherz. And that the average fan does not quite understand that. Which is why I told you to rant away. I guess I should have said vent away. Cuz that seems more like what you were doing. Venting your inner dissappointment.

As I do not own a PSL, I guess it is easier for me to hash over LockOutGate. I still got to watch Panther Football, and had this place to peruse. No big deal that we sucked.

As a lifelong Lions fan, I am numb to bad football. Lions football and my marriage = Very few bangs, for all those expectations.

Anywho, nothing I said was news to you. So it really was just an excercise in futility for me. JK

[Brandon]

If the truth be told, JR bagged the season purposely and said as much. He reportedly told Hurney that if they were going to have a losing season (like they did in 2009 with a 7-9 record) then he was going to cut salaries and go young (read cheap). He already knew Fox was a lame duck and was poor developing rookies but persisted anyway.

The reality is that whole going young and rebuilding crap was what they said to spin a bad situation for gullible fans who are unable to see read between the lines. They could have easily made some changes and brought in some new folks without making so many whole changes. I said before the season started that it was going to be a disaster because they gutted the team of much of the veteran leadership and locker room presence in favor of guys who didn't have a clue.

JR didn't "bag the season" on purpose. He knew Fox was on his way out and wanted to see what there was as far as talent with the young players that Fox refused to play, so he got rid of some under performing veterans that Fox was ridiculously loyal to. There was no reason for JR to worry about money, he's always been one of the top owners in spending every year, I mean how many times have we bitched about being too close to the salary cap... There were a lot of other issues as well, you couldn't pass the team over to Matt and still have Jake around, it just wouldn't work. It'd still be Jake's team. And don't even get me started on the poo logic of saying that Matt somehow lost something with Jake not there, he admitted pretty openly that he just didn't take things seriously enough going into 2010.

Exactly how many of the players we let go in 2010 went on to do anything for any team since they left? Zero. Chris Harris went on to be ineffective on multiple teams, Damione Lewis faded into oblivion, Kemo was injured all the time for the Redskins (shocker there), Hoover retired after no team really went after him and Jake continued to show that he'll never be able to be a starting QB in this league again.

The fact of the matter is you blame that season on players YOU were loyal to leaving the team. It had very little if anything to do with that. That season was a clusterfug from the moment Fox was returning without a contract for the next year. You could see him openly being defiant, playing Brian fuging St. Pierre as a starter. Think about that for a second. That season was doomed, Fox made sure he wasn't going to need to put in more effort than he needed to for an owner he wasn't getting along with very well anymore.

You can try to shift blame strictly to JR but his actions paved the way for this team to actually stay around. Do you think we'd be able to afford CJ or Kalil if we still had all of those contracts on the books? Not without gutting the team.

[top dawg]

Going to the funeral of the PSL owner: A great look for J.R. (the man).

Fileting the the team pre-lockout: Not a good look for J.R. (the owner).

Enough said!

[panthers55]

JR didn't "bag the season" on purpose. He knew Fox was on his way out and wanted to see what there was as far as talent with the young players that Fox refused to play, so he got rid of some under performing veterans that Fox was ridiculously loyal to. There was no reason for JR to worry about money, he's always been one of the top owners in spending every year, I mean how many times have we bitched about being too close to the salary cap... There were a lot of other issues as well, you couldn't pass the team over to Matt and still have Jake around, it just wouldn't work. It'd still be Jake's team. And don't even get me started on the poo logic of saying that Matt somehow lost something with Jake not there, he admitted pretty openly that he just didn't take things seriously enough going into 2010.

Exactly how many of the players we let go in 2010 went on to do anything for any team since they left? Zero. Chris Harris went on to be ineffective on multiple teams, Damione Lewis faded into oblivion, Kemo was injured all the time for the Redskins (shocker there), Hoover retired after no team really went after him and Jake continued to show that he'll never be able to be a starting QB in this league again.

The fact of the matter is you blame that season on players YOU were loyal to leaving the team. It had very little if anything to do with that. That season was a clusterfug from the moment Fox was returning without a contract for the next year. You could see him openly being defiant, playing Brian fuging St. Pierre as a starter. Think about that for a second. That season was doomed, Fox made sure he wasn't going to need to put in more effort than he needed to for an owner he wasn't getting along with very well anymore.

You can try to shift blame strictly to JR but his actions paved the way for this team to actually stay around. Do you think we'd be able to afford CJ or Kalil if we still had all of those contracts on the books? Not without gutting the team.

Another gullible fan who doesn't have the ability to analyze the situation critically and buys the bill of goods that Hurney sold. Your whole premise appears to be that if a player on our team who we cut didn't play well for another team that justified getting rid of them. So following that logic then we shouldn't have picked up a player who wasn't good on another team to begin with right? So because Moose wasn't effective in Chicago went we traded him,. we should never have brought him back, right? Because Jake was a backup on the Saints*** we shouldn't have brought him in right? Of course not, right?? Just because they didn't play well for other teams has no bearing on how they will play here, you say. One thing is not connected to the other, right?? Well Einstein the same logic applies when they leave here to go elsewhere. Just because they chose to retire or didn't star elsewhere has no bearing on how they would have done here in our system. Hoover had some minor injury issues in 2009 but played at a very level whereas his replacement Fiametta had a history of severe concussions and was cut at the end of 2010, how did that young guy work out? And what about Clausen and Moore who were the young replacements who we sacrificed Jake for?? Yeah that worked out....... And what about Brown who we had as Peppers replacement. Another guy worth going young for. And how about Godfrey who is our young replacement for Harris. A real pro bowler right??? And how about drafting Edwards and getting rid of Moose. Brilliant!!! Sure you can say it was for LaFell or Gettis but frankly we could have kept Moose and still drafted both of them. I suspect both of them could have sat behind Moose and learned quite a bit.

The one area we agree on is that Fox had no business being the coach in 2010 and anyone with half a brain knew that. Makes you wonder why Richardson forced him to play the last year as a lame duck coach as if that was going to work out. I think he didn't like Fox in the end and was punishing him by cutting the talent and making him coach the leftovers. Fox knew if he complained or quit, it would make him look bad so he kept his mouth shut for the most part and did some passive aggressive stuff behind the scenes. Once again the Panthers were sacrificed to satisfy some game Richardson was playing with Fox. Sure the 5 million was a factor but lets be real unless we go back to the cheap theory which you want to discount, the only reasons you keep a lame duck coach on staff was money and saving as much as you could expecting a prolonged lockout which you figure you can engineer given you are the chief negotiator (which is going cheap) or some personal agenda. And in the end the team sucked so bad we had to overplay for every player we signed and kept in order to assure they would play for us. I am sure that added up to more than 5 million.

No your logic is like the other apologists. It just doesn't hold up. It was Richardson's fault from beginning to end and he was wrong on all counts. Saying Richardson's actions paved the way to stay around is ridiculous. Richardson didn't have a shortage of money, the Panthers weren't hurting. And none of the veterans who were cut would have been around at the end of 2010 when we had to pay Kalil or Johnson. There seems to be a train of thought that cutting those veterans saved long term contracts but that is totally false. The only guy who had a long term contract who we got rid of was Harris who we traded. Diggs had a 3 year contract but that again was Richardson's fault because they gave him a 3 year extension in January and cut him 3 months later. The salaries of Jake, Kemo, all had clauses which allowed us to make them one years deals which would have made them expire after 2010. Hoover was on his last year of his deal and Moose Peppers and Lewis were free agents. There was virtually little if any benefit to cutting any of those veterans beyond the salaries saved in 2010 (read cheap). Go back and look at the facts instead of parroting the spin and you will see I am right on all counts.

[frash.exe]

You could also argue Fox had no business coaching in 2009 either

[TheGreatestOfAllTimeCam]

I know in my heart Cam is going to win a Super bowl for this man before its said and done.

[Kakarot]

We don't have the league's best owner.