Scott Fowler: Wins are Cam's litmus test this year

[FootballMaestro]

These guys win and lose as a team.

Repeatedly pointing out an individuals mistakes will not alter an already determined outcome.

Without Cam there, would we even had been in a position to seal the victory with one more first down?

I really wonder at times if this fanbase truely deserves a franchise quarterback.

 

I don't get some Panther fans sometimes. 

 

This is not a discussion on what Newton needs to improve on. That's another argument. 

 

This guys is essentially saying, 'Newton cost the Panthers the game in Atlanta (now he claims he's only trying to point out Cam's culpability)', and because some fans see it differently, all of a sudden we're Cam Apologist'??? Come again?

 

And if they all 'lose as a team', why is he going on and on about this?? That would be self explanatory then. 

 

What world do we live in again??

[TheRumGone]

He kept focusing on the fumble and Cam's culpability, from this and other post. He even defended Rivera earlier, at the expense of Cam earlier. 

 

No one is saying Cam lacks any culpability. Of course he has his share. I just think it's silly to wine on or to high light that fumble 8 months later. Don't you? 1) Fumbles are arbitrary in nature to begin with 2) the fact that the team had numerous opportunities to win the game. 3) We know Rivera's been making mistakes, on almost a weekly basis since 2011, including that game. 

 

You never heard me defend Cam, regarding the Denver, Giants and Seahawks game, have???? So stop with the juvenile, silly "Cam Worship" card. Give me something to criticize Cam on, and I will. 

 

It's simple. When I look at the Panthers as a whole, I don't see Newton being the number one problem why the team hasn't made the playoffs. Therefore, it's self explanatory (and even redundant) to say  "Cam has made his share of mistakes". I don't disagree.

 

My problem is, Rivera has made a boat load more.  And even with in the games, it's silly and almost whiny, to focus so much on Cam, when he did so much to win, like the Atlanta game. That's my point. 

 

Now it's a totally different point of emphasis to say "what can Cam work on" for 2013. However, that's a different argument than "who's responsible for a particular game, or the Panthers season/not making the playoffs in 2012". 

 

1. I never said Cam was the reason why we didn't make the playoffs. That is absurd.

 

2. I have said in numerous threads, when Cam protects the football (i.e 13tds, 4ints, 2 fumbles in 8 games) we have a better chance of winning. Obviously there are numerous other reasons why a team will lose. Our defense shitting the bed, our Coach being a bonehead, ect.  But the best probability to win is when Cam doesn't turn over the football. Which he has done a boatload of over his short career.  That is what every QB strives for.

 

That is why talking about games like Atlanta are prevalent.

 

3. Saying that someone is making a boat load more mistakes doesn't even fuging matter.  Bottom line, someone is making mistakes, we need to minimize them. Cam included.  The whole point was that you were trying to take blame away from Cam. Which is ridiculous.

 

4. I don't know why looking at the past is wrong.  poo we do it here everyday.   That is the point of message boards like this. We get a better understanding of this team and what direction we want them to go. 

 

And what is this fumbles are arbitrary to begin with?  Cam fumbled the ball. PERIOD. If he didn't we would have won. Period. i don't care if he hit an offensive lineman and the ball popped out. There is no excuse to fumble in that situation. You made an excuse for him. That is why me and 55 said that.  Cam knows this. Do i blame the loss completely on Cam. No of course not. 

 

But saying somebody is more to blame than somebody else, is just making excuses. And that is bullshit.

[FootballMaestro]

Again no one is just blaming Newton but even an idiot could see that Newton fumbled that ball which set the whole debacle in motion.  That doesn't take away all the other things he did well.  I wonder why you think because we criticize him when he screws up that it doesn't mean he isn't our quarterback or we don't appreciate him.  Some of us just don't idolize him or think he is infallible.

 

Okay, now move on then. 

 

What's your point????

 

You're acting so self righteous, you're oblivious to how silly and cryptic you sound????

 

What the hell?? You're trying to make a passionate argument about a fumble, that the QB actually recovered, in a game with numerous Fluky outcomes later, while the Panthers actually had the lead.

 

Yes we know he did it! We get it. Cam Fumbled, Cam Fumbled, Cam Fumbled! So what??? What's your point (no please don't tell us again). You sound like a broken record. 

 

I'm at a loss for words here. Lol/SMH

[panthers55]

This is a silly argument and you seemed obsessed. 

 

I can bring up "others" as well. However, I'd like to keep it between us. 

 

I was very clear in what I said. We just seem to be coming from two different avenues. And that's fine. 

 

Please upgrade your comprehension skills next time. 

It is a silly argument that you keep going not me.  You were clear in your thinking which is clearly biased.  As for comprehension skills, I taught advanced  skills as a professional educator for decades. If anyone needs an upgrade it isn't me.  

 

Lesson number 1: Attacking others doesn't build your credibility, it detracts from it.  Consider toning down the personal attacks, it is the stuff of adolescents and trolls.  

[TheRed]

Again no one is just blaming Newton but even an idiot could see that Newton fumbled that ball which set the whole debacle in motion. That doesn't take away all the other things he did well. I wonder why you think because we criticize him when he screws up that it doesn't mean he isn't our quarterback or we don't appreciate him. Some of us just don't idolize him or think he is infallible.

Well if an idiot could see he fumbled why are we obsessing over this nearly a year later? It's been confirmed and discussed at length last season. The person who decided to bring it up clearly must still harbor bitterness.

[chef17]

Ahem. That's why I said "It's not a competition". 

 

Plus, the offense has been more successful the past 2 years than the defense. Even when the defense played well many games this year (when they got reasonable), they couldn't hold leads at the end. 

 

In other words: They blew, cost more games than the Offense did on Average. 

 

My point was saying if Cam had better fortune his mistakes in other games would be irrelevant is not true. His mistakes are just as costly as the ones the defense makes. Neither are irrelevant

[FootballMaestro]

1. I never said Cam was the reason why we didn't make the playoffs. That is absurd.

 

2. I have said in numerous threads, when Cam protects the football (i.e 13tds, 4ints, 2 fumbles in 8 games) we have a better chance of winning. Obviously there are numerous other reasons why a team will lose. Our defense shitting the bed, our Coach being a bonehead, ect.  But the best probability to win is when Cam doesn't turn over the football. Which he has done a boatload of over his short career.  That is what every QB strives for.

 

That is why talking about games like Atlanta are prevalent.

 

3. Saying that someone is making a boat load more mistakes doesn't even fuging matter.  Bottom line, someone is making mistakes, we need to minimize them. Cam included.  The whole point was that you were trying to take blame away from Cam. Which is ridiculous.

 

4. I don't know why looking at the past is wrong.  poo we do it here everyday.   That is the point of message boards like this. We get a better understanding of this team and what direction we want them to go. 

 

And what is this fumbles are arbitrary to begin with?  Cam fumbled the ball. PERIOD. If he didn't we would have won. Period. i don't care if he hit an offensive lineman and the ball popped out. There is no excuse to fumble in that situation. You made an excuse for him. That is why me and 55 said that.  Cam knows this. Do i blame the loss completely on Cam. No of course not. 

 

But saying somebody is more to blame than somebody else, is just making excuses. And that is bullshit.

 

I'm not making an excuse for him at all. 

 

And there is our discrepancy. 

 

In the big scheme of things, I just found what took place after--during that game--as a higher priority. And that is my choice. 

 

You can see things how wish as well, as I'm sure you do. Anything else, is a circular argument, since we all seem to agree on various things/culprits that game. 

 

End of story. 

[panthers55]

Okay, now move on then. 

 

What's your point????

 

You're acting so self righteous, you're oblivious to how silly and cryptic you sound????

 

What the hell?? You're trying to make a passionate argument about a fumble, that the QB actually recovered, in a game with numerous Fluky outcomes later, while the Panthers actually had the lead.

 

Yes we know he did it! We get it. Cam Fumbled, Cam Fumbled, Cam Fumbled! So what??? What's your point (no please don't tell us again). You sound like a broken record. 

 

I'm at a loss for words here. Lol/SMH

If only that were true, LOL.   

[FootballMaestro]

It is a silly argument that you keep going not me.  You were clear in your thinking which is clearly biased.  As for comprehension skills, I taught advanced  skills as a professional educator for decades. If anyone needs an upgrade it isn't me.  

 

Lesson number 1: Attacking others doesn't build your credibility, it detracts from it.  Consider toning down the personal attacks, it is the stuff of adolescents and trolls.  

 

Lesson #1

 

Don't posture your fraudulent skills and experiences on the internet. It only makes you look more like a fool, than you were already doing previously. 

 

SMH

 

I'm done with this discussion. 

[TheRumGone]

I'm not making an excuse for him at all. 

 

And there is our discrepancy. 

 

In the big scheme of things, I just found what took place after--during that game--as a higher priority. And that is my choice. 

 

You can see things how wish as well, as I'm sure you do. Anything else, is a circular argument, since we all seem to agree on various things/culprits that game. 

 

End of story. 

 

"Cam's fumble was an accident. You can even argue, it was dislodged by one of his offense lineman, when they collided, if you watch the tape. It happens. So what?"

 

That is what i'm talking about. That is why I disagree with you. It is an excuse. And end of story.

 

 

[panthers55]

He kept focusing on the fumble and Cam's culpability, from this and other post. He even defended Rivera earlier, at the expense of Newton. 

 

No one is saying Cam lacks any culpability. That's nonsense. Of course he has his share. I just think it's silly to wine on or to high light that fumble 8 months later. Don't you? 1) Fumbles are arbitrary in nature to begin with 2) the fact that the team had numerous opportunities to win the game. 3) We know Rivera's been making mistakes, on almost a weekly basis since 2011, including that game. 

 

You notice, you never heard me defend Cam, regarding the Denver, Giants and Seahawks game, have???? So stop with the juvenile, silly "Cam Worship" card. Give me something to fairly assess, or  criticize Cam on, and I will. And I have!

 

It's simple. When I look at the Panthers as a whole, I don't see Newton being the number one problem why the team hasn't made the playoffs. Therefore, it's self explanatory (and even redundant) to say  "Cam has made his share of mistakes". I don't disagree.

 

My problem is: Rivera has made a boat load more, and it almost flies under the radar.  I know Cam's the QB. But Rivera's the head coach. And even with in individual games, it's silly and almost whiny, to focus so much on Cam, when he did so much to win, like the Atlanta game. That's my point. Pick another game then. 

 

Now it's a totally different point of emphasis to say "what can Cam work on" for 2013. However, that's a different argument than "who's responsible for a particular game, or the Panthers season/not making the playoffs in 2012".

 

Please ask question, or properly comprehend next time, before you chime in. 

Actually you are blaming the defense and Rivera for all the mistakes while acknowledging that Newton make a few mistakes.  I am blaming them all equally.  The whole fumble issue you created with saying that Newton shouldn't be blamed for it but Rivera and the defense should take the blame.  I said they all deserve blame.  I can see how each individual and each unit contributed where you and others apologize for Newton while throwing everyone under the bus.  Something your idol would never do.

 

And anyone who thinks Rivera's mistakes are under the radar haven't been paying attention for months on all the criticism he received when he was almost fired and since.

Your inability to see things from more than one point of view is truly extraordinary.

[FootballMaestro]

"Cam's fumble was an accident. You can even argue, it was dislodged by one of his offense lineman, when they collided, if you watch the tape. It happens. So what?"

 

That is what i'm talking about. That is why I disagree with you. It is an excuse. And end of story.

 

Did you ever play organized Sports????

 

Do you know where I'm coming from here?

 

Unless you're a fumbler, a coach will not blame you for a fumble (cause it's usually a fluky thing), nearly as much as a mental error or poor decision. That's where I'm coming from. 

 

Yes, Cam is still guilty, if you want to say it that way. I'm not disagreeing with that. 

 

It's just that in the big scheme of things, compared to what took place after, I find those events much more reprehensible (and frequent) than the fumble. 

 

There are somethings that you just have to accept as part of the the game. 'poo happens'!

[TheRumGone]

Did you ever play organized Sports????

 

Do you know where I'm coming from here?

 

Unless you're a fumbler, a coach will not blame you for a fumble (cause it's usually a fluky thing), nearly as much as a mental error or poor decision. That's where I'm coming from. 

 

Yes, Cam is still guilty, if you want to say it that way. I'm not disagreeing with that. 

 

It's just that in the big scheme of things, compared to what took place after, I find those events much more reprehensible (and frequent) than the fumble. 

 

There are somethings that you just have to accept as part of the the game. 'poo happens'!

 

lol

 

[panthers55]

Lesson #1

 

Don't posture your fraudulent skills and experiences on the internet. It only makes you look more like a fool, than you were already doing previously. 

 

SMH

 

I'm done with this discussion. 

I hope you are done.  And done with the attacks about me about which you have no knowledge.  People here who know what I do and have done also know who the fool is here talking out of turn and it isn't me.

Lesson number 2: Taking away from others and their expertise doesn't help your argument. Particularly when those you criticize may in fact have expertise which you know nothing about.