Scott Fowler: Wins are Cam's litmus test this year

[TheRumGone]

I'm still trying to understand how you blame Cam for the Atlanta loss, when the Panthers would have never been in position to win the game with out Cam in the first place????

 

You act like the defense was carrying Cam the entire game, then he threw a couple of disastrous picks toward the end which cost the Panthers the game, which was the farthest thing from the truth. 

 

OK Cam fumbled. So what? 1) The Panthers had the lead, and still had a chance to go for it and didn't. 2) The defense couldn't hold a team going 80 yds, with sub 60 seconds, with no time outs (after a series of fluky play, that would have to be seen to be believed). 3) The Hail Mary with Nakamura.

 

 I'm still shaking my head. What is wrong with you? Are you okay?

 

I don't think you understand anything that 55 was trying to say.

[FootballMaestro]

I don't think you understand anything that 55 was trying to say.

So elaborate (instead of just telling me)?

 

Maybe I was making my own point, from a previous discussion with him?

 

It's also interesting to know, you can interpret, both what he and I were/are saying. 

 

Hmmmmh. Okay????

 

 

[bleys]

So elaborate (instead of just telling me)?

 

Maybe I was making my own point, from a previous discussion with him?

 

It's also interesting to know, you can interpret, both what he and I were/are saying. 

 

Hmmmmh. Okay????

 

the fug??

[FootballMaestro]

Like usual in your rush to apologize for Newton you miss the whole point as usual.  The fact is that Newton fumbled away a first down that would have sealed the victory and made a decision about going for it on fourth or 1 or punting it away totally moot.  That had nothing to do with Rivera going for it or not going for in on fourth down.  And it had nothing to do with the defensive giving it away.  I would have gone for it on fourth down likely using Newton once again.  And the defense surely collapsed when they should have held. You seem to suffer from the "either or" syndrome here and the answer is both.  Newton blew it and the defense collapsed and we lost.  They both screwed up and no apologies are needed.  

 

What is ridiculous is that you throw every else under the bus and place Newton on a pedestal.  People like me can see his flaws and the defensive flaws and the coaching flaws and not feel a need to lump in all on one group and not spread it around so everyone gets their due share.

 

Like for example the Tampa game where the defense absolutely collapsed and Newton clearly wasn't the problem.  Or the number of bad calls that Rivera made over the course of the season that cost us possessions, points ,and some games.  No one is blameless or unworthy of criticism.  There was plenty of that for everyone.

 

Save the insinuations and personal attacks.  People like me just see Newton for who he is, which is a young quarterback learning and developing into his position..  He makes mistakes, has to learn to control the emotional part of the game, and has cost us some games in the process. So has the defense, so have the coaches.  People like you constantly make excuses for Cam while throwing the rest of the team and the coaches under the bus when there is blame for everyone..  People like me know that it takes a team to lose or win and everyone has to play together as a unit.  People like you seem to think that you can blame one aspect of the team while excusing others as if they don't work in concert.

 

I had already dealt with that in detail. I'm not sure about your comprehension skills. 

 

Obviously, you didn't read what I wrote, and are only focusing on yourself/point. And that's kool. 

 

I don't make excuses for Cam. I call them the way I see it. Unfortunately, I find much of the criticism here, part of the maturation of any QB's. However, some would like you to think it's only Newton, when it's not. 

 

I actually watch the other QB's (as well as the Panthers, including the other young QB's), and I find that, comparatively speaking, Cam is oft criticized hear by some as he's unique. 

 

I'm not telling you Cam doesn't make mistakes. I'm just telling  you it's silly to blame Cam on that fumble in Atlanta. It was a fumble, where he ran into one of his lineman. And the Panthers still had numerous chances to win. So why are you blaming him? Is that supposed to show he's not a winner?? That's what I'm trying to understand???

 

I'm not trying to be rude here. But I gather you never played organized football, sports? Cause if you did,  you would never say what you're saying now regarding that fumble. Now if Cam was a 'Fumbler', you'd have more good reason to, and leg to stand on. However, he's not. 

 

No one says Cam is perfect and not learning and growing. But we have to give criticism where, when it's applicable. And in that Atlanta game, most of the criticism should go towards the defense and Rivera. 

 

Simple as that!

[FootballMaestro]

I don't think you understand anything that 55 was trying to say.

 

Actually, I don't think he understood what I was saying (as well as you). 

 

I had already answered his question/made my statement. 

[TheRumGone]

So elaborate (instead of just telling me)?

 

Maybe I was making my own point, from a previous discussion with him?

 

It's also interesting to know, you can interpret, both what he and I were/are saying. 

 

Hmmmmh. Okay????

 

What?

 

He is saying there are multiple people to blame for that Atlanta loss.  Cam is our franchise QB, he had the opportunity to seal the game. He fumbled, events spiraled out of control and we lossed. He is partly to blame.

 

You keep making excuses for him. But if he had not fumbled we would have won. It is as simple as that. And i'm sure Cam agrees.

 

I think Cam is one of the greatest things to happen to this team. But some fans put this guy on a pedestal to worship and make excuses for him; Like the Atlanta loss, the Seattle underthrow, and his general poor play the first 8 games was completely Chud's fault. Is he solely to blame for all of this? of course not. But he was as much to blame as the defensive lapses that lost us games.

 

Instead put him on the pedestal of greatness. Expect him to make those plays and seal the game for us when he is given the opportunity.

[panthers55]

So basically your argument is always valid but any logical counter argument is merely excuses? Okay.

It's good to know we have an all knowing and infallible individual such as yourself here to set us straight.

Excuses are what they are.  Reasons not  to blame someone when clearly he made a mistake and criticism was justified.  The  difference is I don't feel a need to make them.  Newton screwed up, plain and simple.. He is still my guy with all the issues and problems.  No need for excuses. He wasn't alone.

[FootballMaestro]

What?

 

He is saying there are multiple people to blame for that Atlanta loss.  Cam is our franchise QB, he had the opportunity to seal the game. He fumbled, events spiraled out of control and we lossed. He is partly to blame.

 

You keep making excuses for him. But if he had not fumbled we would have won. It is as simple as that. And i'm sure Cam agrees.

 

I think Cam is one of the greatest things to happen to this team. But some fans put this guy on a pedestal to worship and make excuses for him; Like the Atlanta loss, the Seattle underthrow, and his general poor play the first 8 games was completely Chud's fault. Is he solely to blame for all of this? of course not. But he was as much to blame as the defensive lapses that lost us games.

 

Instead put him on the pedestal of greatness. Expect him to make those plays and seal the game for us when he is given the opportunity.

 

He kept focusing on the fumble and Cam's culpability, from this and other post. He even defended Rivera earlier, at the expense of Newton. 

 

No one is saying Cam lacks any culpability. That's nonsense. Of course he has his share. I just think it's silly to wine on or to high light that fumble 8 months later. Don't you? 1) Fumbles are arbitrary in nature to begin with 2) the fact that the team had numerous opportunities to win the game. 3) We know Rivera's been making mistakes, on almost a weekly basis since 2011, including that game. 

 

You notice, you never heard me defend Cam, regarding the Denver, Giants and Seahawks game, have???? So stop with the juvenile, silly "Cam Worship" card. Give me something to fairly assess, or  criticize Cam on, and I will. And I have!

 

It's simple. When I look at the Panthers as a whole, I don't see Newton being the number one problem why the team hasn't made the playoffs. Therefore, it's self explanatory (and even redundant) to say  "Cam has made his share of mistakes". I don't disagree.

 

My problem is: Rivera has made a boat load more, and it almost flies under the radar.  I know Cam's the QB. But Rivera's the head coach. And even with in individual games, it's silly and almost whiny, to focus so much on Cam, when he did so much to win, like the Atlanta game. That's my point. Pick another game then. 

 

Now it's a totally different point of emphasis to say "what can Cam work on" for 2013. However, that's a different argument than "who's responsible for a particular game, or the Panthers season/not making the playoffs in 2012".

 

Please ask question, or properly comprehend next time, before you chime in. 

[TheRed]

Excuses are what they are. Reasons not to blame someone when clearly he made a mistake and criticism was justified. The difference is I don't feel a need to make them. Newton screwed up, plain and simple.. He is still my guy with all the issues and problems. No need for excuses. He wasn't alone.

These guys win and lose as a team.

Repeatedly pointing out an individuals mistakes will not alter an already determined outcome.

Without Cam there, would we even had been in a position to seal the victory with one more first down?

I really wonder at times if this fanbase truely deserves a franchise quarterback.

[chef17]

I'm still trying to understand how you blame Cam for the Atlanta loss, when the Panthers would have never been in position to win the game with out Cam in the first place????

 

You act like the defense was carrying Cam the entire game, then he threw a couple of disastrous picks toward the end which cost the Panthers the game, which was the farthest thing from the truth. 

 

OK Cam fumbled. So what? 1) The Panthers had the lead, and still had a chance to go for it and didn't. 2) The defense couldn't hold a team going 80 yds, with sub 60 seconds, with no time outs (after a series of fluky play, that would have to be seen to be believed). 3) The Hail Mary with Nakamura. I'll leave at that. The less said, the better. How is any of that Cam's fault????

 

 I'm still shaking my head. What is wrong with you? Are you okay?

 

It's not a competition of who to blame on the Panthers. The reason why fans bring up the Defensive issues, is cause they're trying to illustrate, that if Cam experienced better fortune (i.e. defense and special teams in just a few games), he would have 9, 10-11 wins, and no one would be discussing the few mistakes he DID make in other games. They would be irrelevant. That's all.  

 

I find it amusing, that you can always single out Cam in this way. But rarely discuss Rivera, Special Teams, and the defense in the same manner. Go figure!!

 

You do realize that the same could be said about the defense right? If they had better fortune (i.e. an offense and special teams that could consistently score at least 20 points) the team would have 9, 10, or 11 wins.

 

[panthers55]

I'm still trying to understand how you blame Cam for the Atlanta loss, when the Panthers would have never been in position to win the game with out Cam in the first place????

 

You act like the defense was carrying Cam the entire game, then he threw a couple of disastrous picks toward the end which cost the Panthers the game, which was the farthest thing from the truth. 

 

OK Cam fumbled. So what? 1) The Panthers had the lead, and still had a chance to go for it and didn't. 2) The defense couldn't hold a team going 80 yds, with sub 60 seconds, with no time outs (after a series of fluky play, that would have to be seen to be believed). 3) The Hail Mary with Nakamura. I'll leave at that. The less said, the better. How is any of that Cam's fault????

 

 I'm still shaking my head. What is wrong with you? Are you okay?

 

It's not a competition of who to blame on the Panthers. The reason why fans bring up the Defensive issues, is cause they're trying to illustrate, that if Cam experienced better fortune (i.e. defense and special teams in just a few games), he would have 9, 10-11 wins, and no one would be discussing the few mistakes he DID make in other games. They would be irrelevant. That's all.  

 

I find it amusing, that you can always single out Cam in this way. But rarely discuss Rivera, Special Teams, and the defense in the same manner. Go figure!!

 

 

As others have pointed out and  you clearly don't see that it wasn't Cam's fault anymore than it was the defense's fault or Rivera for not going for it on fourth and 1.  It was first his fault when he fumbled, then it was Rivera's fault for not going for it and it was then the defense's fault for collapsing.  It frankly took all three for us to lose.

The difference here is that you are blaming every else for losing and not including Newton as well. Somehow it is fine to blame everyone else for causing Newton to have bad fortunes and not have more wins yet hold him harmless. What I find amusing is that Newton wouldn't agree with you and would never blame others for the losses. He would clearly tell you he blew it by fumbling the ball away.  So if he is not making excuses why are you???

[FootballMaestro]

You do realize that the same could be said about the defense right? If they had better fortune (i.e. an offense and special teams that could consistently score at least 20 points) the team would have 9, 10, or 11 wins.

 

 

Ahem. That's why I said "It's not a competition". 

 

Plus, the offense has been more successful the past 2 years than the defense. Even when the defense played well many games this year (when they got reasonable), they couldn't hold leads at the end. 

 

In other words: They blew, cost more games than the Offense did on Average. 

[FootballMaestro]

As others have pointed out and  you clearly don't see that it wasn't Cam's fault anymore than it was the defense's fault or Rivera for not going for it on fourth and 1.  It was first his fault when he fumbled, then it was Rivera's fault for not going for it and it was then the defense's fault for collapsing.  It frankly took all three for us to lose.

The difference here is that you are blaming every else for losing and not including Newton as well. Somehow it is fine to blame everyone else for causing Newton to have bad fortunes and not have more wins yet hold him harmless. What I find amusing is that Newton wouldn't agree with you and would never blame others for the losses. He would clearly tell you he blew it by fumbling the ball away.  So if he is not making excuses why are you???

 

This is a silly argument and you seemed obsessed. 

 

I can bring up "others" as well. However, I'd like to keep it between us. 

 

I was very clear in what I said. We just seem to be coming from two different avenues. And that's fine. 

 

Please upgrade your comprehension skills next time. 

[panthers55]

These guys win and lose as a team.

Repeatedly pointing out an individuals mistakes will not alter an already determined outcome.

Without Cam there, would we even had been in a position to seal the victory with one more first down?

I really wonder at times if this fanbase truely deserves a franchise quarterback.

Again no one is just blaming Newton but even an idiot could see that Newton fumbled that ball which set the whole debacle in motion.  That doesn't take away all the other things he did well.  I wonder why you think because we criticize him when he screws up that it doesn't mean he isn't our quarterback or we don't appreciate him.  Some of us just don't idolize him or think he is infallible.