Cam wants a run game

[panthers55]

He also reports  to Richardson every week .....Richardson may have other interest but i'm pretty sure this football team is also a business and he has important hand in lot of the work  we may not know or is reported...........the only thing Gettleman is going to have say in is the final 53 roster and dealing with the team financially ........find the link where he has coaching influence...

So if the boss tells his supervisor that we are going to change directions and instead of focusing on overseas sales we are going to concentrate on domestic sales, is that going to impact the supervisor's coaching to the salesforce??

 

In like fashion when gettleman said we were going to use the read option less and focus on having newton being a pocket passer he was telling Rivera how the play calling would change.  You can be sure that Richardson is in agreement with it or is letting Gettleman do it his way. 

 

Gettleman by the nature of telling what Rivera what he wants to see is influencing the way Rivera coaches. It doesn't take a genius to see that. 

[TheRumGone]

you're taking rushing stats, not number of read option plays. and before you say "that's not cam rushing," that is giving cam the opportunity to rush based on what the defense gave him. that is limiting him as a passer. as well as the fake read option to pass. obviously our oline couldn't handle it.

 

Marguide came out with a chart last year that showed read option plays compared from first half to second half of the season.  obviously first half was significantly more.  our inefficiencies in the "first four games" as you said, (even though i believe it to be longer because of the fake read option/pass plays, and lining up in those formations a hell of a lot more) comes down to the read option plays which are basically designed runs for cam, essentially. He is a quarterback that is why i think that.

 

You just taking rushing stats doesn't give a whole lot of credence to the overall picture in how we designed and ran our plays for the first half of the season.  now i agree with you completely that Cam needs to be Cam and know when to take off and when to sit in the pocket. Sometimes i think he runs when he shouldn't, sometimes i think he throws when he should run. no qb is perfect. but the read-option wasn't just used too much in the first four games. It was used too much and situationally was awful for the first 6 or 7 games. imo.

 

the key is not lining up in the read option formation as much as we did in the first half, which in turn will cause Cam to have less rushes. which means that Cam will be running less. and once again o-line play will have a large effect on how much cam runs as well.

 

 

 

[bleys]

over and over, it seems to me that CRA makes good sense on this issue.  I just don't see how Cam passing more in the pocket doesn't give him more room to escape and get yards if it's there, and the defense is smothering every receiver.

 

it's just going to happen from time to time throughout each quarter.

[CRA]

So if the boss tells his supervisor that we are going to change directions and instead of focusing on overseas sales we are going to concentrate on domestic sales, is that going to impact the supervisor's coaching to the salesforce??

In like fashion when gettleman said we were going to use the read option less and focus on having newton being a pocket passer he was telling Rivera how the play calling would change. You can be sure that Richardson is in agreement with it or is letting Gettleman do it his way.

Gettleman by the nature of telling what Rivera what he wants to see is influencing the way Rivera coaches. It doesn't take a genius to see that.

In the NFL.....if a GM wants a real change in direction......they bring in a new coach and they bring in a QB that fits it.

GM inherited Rivera and Cam...and he isn't a coach. Either Rivera/Cam sink or swim this year. Then the GM makes his move. GM doesn't control the O and QB with coaching....he does it with hiring and firing.

[panthers55]

Cam ran more in the 2nd half of 2012 than first half....

You ignore that tidbit....

That was with the "Shula" credited shift in offense....with less read option.

You could remove the read option all together.....Cam still runs. I have been on record 100 times saying the read option will be more like 2011 than 12. An option....nothing we have seen with a very limited read option is backed by Cam running less.

Again what does 2012 have to do with 2013?  Gettleman was not here so anything we did last year was  Rivera's idea given we didn't even have a general manager to give Rivera advice (unless you can Beane a GM).  Last year we deemphasized the read option somewhat and went to a more traditional system. But Chud was still the OC and obviously still ran Newton as much as he did.This year Rivera said after talking to Gettleman and getting his advice, that we will further deemphasize the read option and make Newton even more of a pocket passer and focus on a traditional running game.

 

Shula helped simplify the offense in 2012 but is doing even more to simplify it now that he is in charge.  He said he is going to a more traditional power running game which is a change from last year.  I believe him so honestly I don't know why we would look at what we did under a different OC to determine what we will do this year.    Last year was Chud's offense that Shula helped simplify.  This year it is Shula's offense that he has already told us would be similar but different in some areas.  Two of those I am convinced will be how much Newton runs and what they use as their base formations.

 

But this is classic CRA.  20 pages saying the same thing over and again and when he is wrong again we might get one post takinng back what we all had to suffer through for 5 months.  Good thing this is the offseason with nothing else going on.  

Let see what happens.  I already know I will be right so I can wait for verification. I  just am not going to keep arguing with someone who never admits they are wrong and argues for pages despite being out in left field.

[CRA]

the key is not lining up in the read option formation as much as we did in the first half, which in turn will cause Cam to have less rushes. which means that Cam will be running less. and once again o-line play will have a large effect on how much cam runs as well.

Again though, 2012....

Cam had MORE rush attempts the last 8 games than the first. That was with significantly less zone read looks.

Reality of last year, doesn't back that

[bleys]

allow me to clarify, all of you have spent 20 pages arguing.

 

the "system" isn't going to be so black and white that the GM affects playcalling so much as what the defense gives them as a whole.  Fact is, one game Cam may stay in the pocket and the next have gaping holes to run through...

 

anything else is just arguing to argue.

[TheRumGone]

Again though, 2012....

Cam had MORE rush attempts the last 8 games than the first. That was with significantly less zone read looks.

Reality of last year, doesn't back that

 

because of shoddy o-line play. cam had more opportunities to run in the first half. that to me is the difference. we fix the o-line and run less read option, cam runs less.

[panthers55]

In the NFL.....if a GM wants a real change in direction......they bring in a new coach and they bring in a QB that fits it.

GM inherited Rivera and Cam...and he isn't a coach. Either Rivera/Cam sink or swim this year. Then the GM makes his move. GM doesn't control the O and QB with coaching....he does it with hiring and firing.

The GM picks a coach who reflects his philosophy and who will do what he wants. Gettleman has already said that Rivera and he are on the same page and have a similar philosophy.  Gettleman has already told us what the coaching philosophy will be.  The changes Gettleman wants are to have Cam stay in the pocket, use the running backs more which is why he kept both Williams and  Stewart, and do what they did in New York.

it doesn't matter whether Rivera was picked by him or not.  They are on the same page they are going to do what Gettleman wants done and that is really it.  GMs do a lot more than hire and fire.  Gettleman hs said he has the last word on everything. Not just hiring and firing.

Only a fool for a coach would vary from what Gettleman says to do given that he is on the hot seat and Gettleman is surely not. 

[CRA]

Again what does 2012 have to do with 2013? Gettleman was not here so anything we did last year was Rivera's idea given we didn't even have a general manager to give Rivera advice (unless you can Beane a GM). Last year we deemphasized the read option somewhat and went to a more traditional system. But Chud was still the OC and obviously still ran Newton as much as he did.This year Rivera said after talking to Gettleman and getting his advice, that we will further deemphasize the read option and make Newton even more of a pocket passer and focus on a traditional running game.

Shula helped simplify the offense in 2012 but is doing even more to simplify it now that he is in charge. He said he is going to a more traditional power running game which is a change from last year. I believe him so honestly I don't know why we would look at what we did under a different OC to determine what we will do this year. Last year was Chud's offense that Shula helped simplify. This year it is Shula's offense that he has already told us would be similar but different in some areas. Two of those I am convinced will be how much Newton runs and what they use as their base formations.

But this is classic CRA. 20 pages saying the same thing over and again and when he is wrong again we might get one post takinng back what we all had to suffer through for 5 months. Good thing this is the offseason with nothing else going on.

Let see what happens. I already know I will be right so I can wait for verification. I just am not going to keep arguing with someone who never admits they are wrong and argues for pages despite being out in left field.

What do the facts and reality of Rivera, Cam, Shula have to do with anything.....nothing per you.

Yes, Shula helped simplify and change our offense if reports are correct......and again, Cam ran MORE the 2nd half. You keep acting like that supports Cam running less.

No one will be proven right or wrong until the season plays out....but like always you ink in your opinion on things as the ultimate fact. Just like when we debated the RBs and you argued against me every time I said we should pick one, pay him, and move on from the other. Just like when you said Jake shouldn't of been benched in 2009.

Difference between you and I is I know I go on and on stubbornly on issues. You somehow fail to overlook you are also posting the same thing over and over and over. Classic CRA, huh.....55 doesn't realize he is me from the opposite side of the argument all too often.

And again, last time you claimed I never admit to be wrong I gave you an example of me being wrong immediately.....you on the other hand....

[panthers55]

Again though, 2012....

Cam had MORE rush attempts the last 8 games than the first. That was with significantly less zone read looks.

Reality of last year, doesn't back that

Who was OC last year?  Who is OC this year?? What does last year have to do with this?

[panthers55]

Difference between you and I is I know I go on and on stubbornly on issues. You somehow fail to overlook you are also posting the same thing over and over and over. Classic CRA, huh.....55 doesn't realize he is me from the opposite side of the argument all too often.

 

Difference is that I argue for a page or two and quit. You go on and on and when no one argues, you try to bait people into arguing.  Then you start psting the same thing in every thread.  when  that isn't enough, you make up new threads to argue your point. 

 

You argue with everyone and the common denominator is you.  Don't put me in the same boat with you. 

[CRA]

The GM picks a coach who reflects his philosophy and who will do what he wants. Gettleman has already said that Rivera and he are on the same page and have a similar philosophy.  Gettleman has already told us what the coaching philosophy will be.  The changes Gettleman wants are to have Cam stay in the pocket, use the running backs more which is why he kept both Williams and  Stewart, and do what they did in New York.

it doesn't matter whether Rivera was picked by him or not.  They are on the same page they are going to do what Gettleman wants done and that is really it.  GMs do a lot more than hire and fire.  Gettleman hs said he has the last word on everything. Not just hiring and firing.

Only a fool for a coach would vary from what Gettleman says to do given that he is on the hot seat and Gettleman is surely not.

Rivera needs to win....taking away Cam's legs greatly reduces those chances. Cam is largely the reason we where in almost all 32 games of his career. Arm and legs.

Only a fool would take Cam Newton at this stage of his career and think his game should resemble Eli's...I don't think you fully credit Cam for how impactful his legs have been.

And no, out first year GM.....doesn't have the last word on everything. He doesn't even have final say on coaches. Jerry Richardson wouldn't even allow him to be in a position to debate hot Rivera's fate. Again, he is a GM. He has limitations.....he isn't this all powerful man who is going to be more coach, QB coach, O coordinator you paint him as.

[panthers55]

allow me to clarify, all of you have spent 20 pages arguing.

 

the "system" isn't going to be so black and white that the GM affects playcalling so much as what the defense gives them as a whole.  Fact is, one game Cam may stay in the pocket and the next have gaping holes to run through...

 

anything else is just arguing to argue.

The GM determine philosophy and direction which means he bring in the players that he and Rivera want.  They discuss how they will be used and what we will do. As you note weekly gameplanning will determine what we run.  Not just from what the defense gives us but our personnel which changes based on injuries and what we are doing well.  As long as things go well Gettleman will let Rivera run things.  But if  they don't expect Gettleman to get a lot more involved just like Rivera did in 2012 when the defense struggled in 2011.