If It Wasn't Clear That We Need Offensive Line Help (OTL Stat)

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Anybody care to turn this into a number game?

Let's assuming the blame equation looks like this.

Blame = Cam + Chud + OLine

We could also put RR in there, but for our purposes let's assume that as the head coach RR's responsibility = Chud's responsibility.

Let's also assuming Blame is equal to 100 percent. So what percentage of blame would you assign to each party? Here's mine:

Cam - 15%

Chud - 60%

OLine - 25%

We won't be able to tell until the first few games.

Simply from practice reports it sounds more like...

Cam- 5%

Chud- 25%

O-Line- 70%

[panthers55]

If you wish to buy that politically-correct BS and ignore Cam's own frustrations after those games, then more power to you. During our 2-8 stretch, Cam was seeking home runs because of our offensive struggles (thanks impart to Chud and O-Line play). All QBs in that position would start to swing for the fences too, especially when your defense and special teams leave no room for error, and can't preserve leads. Anyone who has seen Newton play before knew that he reacting uncharacteristically during the first half of the season.

 

Yeah because up to that point no one has ever said that he gets down on himself and tries to do too much.  No one had criticized him for getting all frustrated and cares more about his own feelings than he does about being positive to help the team and show leadership.

And Cam himself didn't say that he is working on being more of a leader and staying  positive instead of being Mr Mopeyhead.

 

Yeah it was all Chud and the O-line.

 

You must be the president of the BNJS.  If you don't know know what that means ask someone who was around when Jake was here. 

[panthers55]

A few thoughts:

1) Kalil was our center for some of the worst O-line performances last year. The line actually began to perform better as the injuries mounted and guys like Byers were playing. Does that mean Byers et al are better than Kalil and the other starters, or is the answer found in one of CRA's points earlier in this thread?

2) The key point made by CRA and others has to do with changes in play calling as the year went on. Routes were shortened, checkdowns became available, and we used more 2 TE and max protect sets. That is a big part of why Cam and the O-line improved as the year progressed.

3) Cam takes fewer big sacks than just about any QB in the league thanks to his legs. He broke many big runs on scrambles. There are times he should just throw it away, but they are rare.

That's my 2 cents worth.

Who was next to Kalil at the beginning of the year?  Oh yeah, a rookie with no starting experience.  Couldn't be that as he got experience he helped shore up his position and Bell got more experience and improved as well. How do you make the passing game better?  Run the ball better??

 

What if the biggest changes were going to a more power running game which opened up play action,slowed down the pass rush and made the passing game better.  Did we call shorter routes and more checkdowns or did Shula work with Cam to hit the checkdowns and look for receivers quicker? Maybe a combination of both....

 

Nobody debates that Newton is elusive and can break big runs with his legs. No one debates that the Oline was not good. Even Cam says he needs to get better so why is it even a debate.

[Marguide]

... so why is it even a debate.

1) It's a forum. That's what we do here.

2) Not everyone shares the same opinion.

[Udogg]

A few thoughts:

2) The key point made by CRA and others has to do with changes in play calling as the year went on. Routes were shortened, checkdowns became available, and we used more 2 TE and max protect sets. That is a big part of why Cam and the O-line improved as the year progressed.

 

 

From my observations this was the biggest change.  This didn't start till week 9.  Why did it take 8 games for us to change the offense?

[Gabeking]

I just finished a great day of fishing at the beach and came back to the beach house and happened to turn on OTL on ESPN.

They were discussing Gettleman's comments about Cam and though I don't condone watching ESPN, Jackie McMullan presented a great stat.

- Cam has been hit 320+ times since 2011. The player that comes in second has been hit 180 times since 2011. With a stat out like this, you would think that the Carolina Panthers would address the offensive line position.

- Bomani Jones also mentioned a common stat among Panther fans being that the Panthers have lost 13 of their 19 games by a touchdown or less.

Note: By addressing the offensive line position, I don't mean drafting a DII project in the fourth round.

On a side not, Bill Plaschke believes that we will win 10 games and be a playoff team this year.

It's nice to hear people that are somewhat knowledgeable of our team speak rather than jackwagons like Prisco, Schein etc..

I may be in the minority but I actually really like Prisco. Besides that one stupid Cam pro bowl article he has stuck up for him many times and at the very least is no where close to the dimwit Schein is, Prisco is actually pretty knowledgable TBH. Just my 2 cents.

/endrant

[Jakob]

Wait until the final roster cuts are over, we will pick up 1-2 Linemen and hopefully another half decent CB.

[panthers55]

Oh grow up you whiny little runt. You act as if I'm excusing Cam for his body language and inconsistency. If you're already resorting to jamming words into my mouth, then there's no point in debating with a 12 year old with internet privileges.

 

Goodbye.

There you go with the juvenile personal attacks when you lose  the debate.  People who have seen me at the tailgates would surely not confuse me with a child or a runt..  Why not go to the smack forum where you belong if you can't discuss issues like an adult.  

[panthers55]

1) It's a forum. That's what we do here.

2) Not everyone shares the same opinion.

But some things have been discussed ad nauseum with players admitting they need to work on certain aspects of their game.  Then apologists come on here acting like it isn't even a concern. Most folks just accept it  and move on.

[panthers55]

Here is an excerpt from Football Outsiders almanac 2013 on what we need to be a playoff team this year. It said exactly what I have been saying. Regardless of the o-line, Newton needs to get better.  Everything from needing to read defenses faster and making better decisions to not holding the ball too long.  43% of his sacks were due to holding the ball over 3 seconds which was tops in the league.  He fumbled 10 times in 2012 including the killer one against Atlanta.

 

 Football Outsiders Almanac 2013

"Football Outsiders Almanac 2013," a comprehensive guide to the upcoming NFL and college football seasons featuring FO's advanced stats, is available now in electronic and print versions. 
Electronic »
Print »

We know the Panthers will have their strengths in 2013. In Cam Newton, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart and short-yardage specialist Mike Tolbert, the Panthers have a quartet of players capable of moving the ball on the ground against any defense. First-round draft pick Star Lotulelei will join Luke Kuechly, Charles Johnson & Co. to form what should be the best front seven in the division. But that's not enough to make a playoff team. Here's what needs to happen if the Panthers are going to get back into the postseason and wipe Delhomme-ageddon from their memory:

Cam Newton's passing must improve. Newton's fantasy numbers and completion rate fell in his second season, leading to a common perception that he regressed, but in some ways he showed significant improvement. His yards per play actually rose slightly, and his interception rate declined significantly. His DVOA -- our advanced play-by-play metric, explained here -- was slightly higher in 2012 than in 2011. But there's still plenty of room for improvement.

For starters, there's the red zone, where Newton's completion rate (34.9 percent) and touchdown rate (12.7 percent) were about two-thirds and half of the league average figures (52.7 percent, 23.2 percent). Newton remains a dangerous red zone rusher, but it's easier for defenses to limit his scrambling opportunities near the goal line -- he had only 26 red zone rushes in 2012, but 63 red zone passes. If Newton can just be average inside the 20, that'll add about a half-dozen touchdowns for the Panthers' offense this fall.

Newton also must learn to read defenses and decide where to go with the ball more quickly. Newton was sacked 36 times last season, and 43 percent of those plays were "long" sacks when Newton held the ball for at least three seconds, the highest rate in the league.

Finally, Newton needs to get over his case of fumble-itis. He had just five fumbles as a rookie but had 10 last season. Only five players fumbled more often in 2012.

 

[R0CKnR0LLA]

[TheRed]

Here is an excerpt from Football Outsiders almanac 2013 on what we need to be a playoff team this year. It said exactly what I have been saying. Regardless of the o-line, Newton needs to get better. Everything from needing to read defenses faster and making better decisions to not holding the ball too long. 43% of his sacks were due to holding the ball over 3 seconds which was tops in the league. He fumbled 10 times in 2012 including the killer one against Atlanta.

Football Outsiders Almanac 2013

"Football Outsiders Almanac 2013," a comprehensive guide to the upcoming NFL and college football seasons featuring FO's advanced stats, is available now in electronic and print versions.

Electronic »

Print »

We know the Panthers will have their strengths in 2013. In Cam Newton, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart and short-yardage specialist Mike Tolbert, the Panthers have a quartet of players capable of moving the ball on the ground against any defense. First-round draft pick Star Lotulelei will join Luke Kuechly, Charles Johnson & Co. to form what should be the best front seven in the division. But that's not enough to make a playoff team. Here's what needs to happen if the Panthers are going to get back into the postseason and wipe Delhomme-ageddon from their memory:

Cam Newton's passing must improve. Newton's fantasy numbers and completion rate fell in his second season, leading to a common perception that he regressed, but in some ways he showed significant improvement. His yards per play actually rose slightly, and his interception rate declined significantly. His DVOA -- our advanced play-by-play metric, explained here -- was slightly higher in 2012 than in 2011. But there's still plenty of room for improvement.

For starters, there's the red zone, where Newton's completion rate (34.9 percent) and touchdown rate (12.7 percent) were about two-thirds and half of the league average figures (52.7 percent, 23.2 percent). Newton remains a dangerous red zone rusher, but it's easier for defenses to limit his scrambling opportunities near the goal line -- he had only 26 red zone rushes in 2012, but 63 red zone passes. If Newton can just be average inside the 20, that'll add about a half-dozen touchdowns for the Panthers' offense this fall.

Newton also must learn to read defenses and decide where to go with the ball more quickly. Newton was sacked 36 times last season, and 43 percent of those plays were "long" sacks when Newton held the ball for at least three seconds, the highest rate in the league.

Finally, Newton needs to get over his case of fumble-itis. He had just five fumbles as a rookie but had 10 last season. Only five players fumbled more often in 2012.

Is this a joke?

We would have been lucky to win 2 games all year without him behind center. All but 2 of our losses he and the offense kept us within 7 points late into the 4th quarter. Is he supposed go out there and play defense now too?

Yet he's expected to do even more no matter even if he has a shitty offensive line?

What a load of garbage.

[panthers55]

Is this a joke?

We would have been lucky to win 2 games all year without him behind center. All but 2 of our losses he and the offense kept us within 7 points late into the 4th quarter. Is he supposed go out there and play defense now too?

Yet he's expected to do even more no matter even if he has a shitty offensive line?

What a load of garbage.

Again why the indignation and outrage as if Newton was perfect and can't get better.  Who says the line was good or doesn't need to get better.  The issue is that every player needs to get better and the one guy who touches the ball on every offensive play is Newton. So he is going to get the most scrutiny and is going to  be expected to play at a high level no matter the rest of the team.  Those kind of expectations are why the  quarterback is the highest paid player on the team. To those who are given much, much is expected.

[TheRed]

Again why the indignation and outrage as if Newton was perfect and can't get better. Who says the line was good or doesn't need to get better. The issue is that every player needs to get better and the one guy who touches the ball on every offensive play is Newton. So he is going to get the most scrutiny and is going to be expected to play at a high level no matter the rest of the team. Those kind of expectations are why the quarterback is the highest paid player on the team. To those who are given much, much is expected.

I missed the part where I said he was perfect. Can you show me where I said that please?

You clearly wrote "regardless of the o line, Newton needs to get better". As if having a sh*t o line is no big deal.

Cam currently is not our highest paid player. We tied up 90 million in RB's and our QB lead the team in rushing. Yet Cam is the problem that is holding us back from the playoffs? Come on man. You're really reaching here.

That gif ROCKnROLLA just posted above sums it up.