If we go 9-7 and miss the playoffs, Rivera should NOT be fired.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

No. Not at all.

It's exactly what I said.

You obviously want to believe what you want (and how you want). So I'm not going to waste my time trying to discuss it otherwise. And that's fine.

I've been very clear in what I've said, and you choose to selective (if you read and understood everything at all), while being circular in your discussion.

I get it.

Lol is this because you could find the quotes from Rivera or the fact that I called you out for speculating that Rivera didn't talk to Chud?

But then again, your "evidence" tells you he didn't...

Right?

[MasterAwesome]

You also failed to mention that he would have had to promote Dorsey to QB coach and then find a new scout to replace Dorsey... That's just too much to go through.

Lol really? You're gonna resort to that argument? Oh and the Panthers had to find a replacement for the Assistant Special Teams Coach last year when they promoted him to Special Teams Coach, how ever did we survive?!? Tell me what a QB Coach's job duties are that are of the utmost importance that Shula couldn't have still helped Cam with himself...since you seem to know everything about everything. And why would bringing in a new guy as a QB coach severely handicap Cam when his original QB coach is still on the team...the new QB coach isn't installing his own playbook...he's not gonna be contradicting things that Shula taught him as his original QB coach, and if he is, then Shula's right there to clear it up.

[FootballMaestro]

Lol is this because you could find the quotes from Rivera or the fact that I called you out for speculating that Rivera didn't talk to Chud?

But then again, your "evidence" tells you he didn't...

Right?

 

Not at all. 

 

I've already provided those quotes on the Huddle before. 

 

As I said, they were from an Albert Breer article on NFL.com. earlier this year. I'm well aware of them.  

 

Quite frankly, I don't think you're credible and logical enough to argue with anymore. You've shown that you will ignore all common sense, facts and logic, to hang on to your own point, and ignore and not concede anything. Here's one of the reasons why:

 

I've stated many times, 'that it doesn't matter, what Rivera may have or not said to Chud (that's your argument, not mine or the rest of the worlds)'. The fact is; Rivera admitted, that he was in on Chud's Offensive changes before the season started, wasn't directly involved enough in managing the team/coordinators, and took notice/made changes with [mainly after] the firing of the GM. There's nothing else to say. Doesn't matter what Rivera may or my not have done, behind the scenes (as your alluding to). The evidence, available facts, and events, suggest otherwise, or [at the least] his initial culpability, mistakes. 

 

And once again, weren't you the guy, that misread my response to your post, and belatedly admitted you had only read one line, of my multi-paragraph response, as an excuse cause you totally misreading/understand what I wrote?

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Lol really? You're gonna resort to that argument? Oh and the Panthers had to find a replacement for the Assistant Special Teams Coach last year when they promoted him to Special Teams Coach, how ever did we survive?!? Tell me what a QB Coach's job duties are that are of the utmost importance that Shula couldn't have still helped Cam with himself...since you seem to know everything about everything. And why would bringing in a new guy as a QB coach severely handicap Cam when his original QB coach is still on the team...the new QB coach isn't installing his own playbook...he's not gonna be contradicting things that Shula taught him as his original QB coach, and if he is, then Shula's right there to clear it up.

They didn't hire a special teams assistant to replace Rogers until the offseason, so you would be wrong there...

And what do you mean really? You are having to promote/hire three people. You're underestimating how continuity and consistency affect Cam. You're acting like that Cam would be able to adjust mid season to two changes that directly affect him...

The OC is in charge of play calling and helping Rivera game plan for the next game, there is no way that Shula could have still run positional drills at practice and chart down practice information every single day while also meeting with Rivera every day to devise a game plan for for Sunday.

Gimme a break... another person that hasn't coached pretending like he knows it all.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Not at all.

I've already provided those quotes on the Huddle before.

As I said, they were from an Albert Breer article on NFL.com. earlier this year. I'm well aware of them.

Quite frankly, I don't think you're credible and logical enough to argue with anymore. You've shown that you will ignore all common sense, facts and logic, to hang on to your own point, and ignore and not concede anything. Here's one of the reasons why:

I've stated many times, 'that it doesn't matter, what Rivera may have or not said to Chud (that's your argument, not mine or the rest of the worlds)'. The fact is; Rivera admitted, that he was in on Chud's Offensive changes before the season started, wasn't directly involved enough in managing the team/coordinators, and took notice/made changes with [mainly after] the firing of the GM. There's nothing else to say. Doesn't matter what Rivera may or my not have done, behind the scenes (as your alluding to). The evidence, available facts, and events, suggest otherwise, or his initial culpability, mistakes.

And once again, weren't you the guy, that misread my response to your post, and belatedly admitted you had only read one line, of my multi-paragraph response, as an excuse cause you totally misreading/understand what I wrote?

Please quote those Rivera comments or gtfo.

[FootballMaestro]

Please quote those Rivera comments or gtfo.

 

Not that it matters; you will respond to anything else I said, or admit it was you the other day, doing what you're doing now. As I said, I'm done with you.  But here's the quote and link:

 

 

 

Rivera and his staff, for their part, adjusted as well. The second-year coach is willing to concede that Hurney's dismissal put everyone on notice -- "That kinda put it out there how it was gonna be, and now people here look at it and say, 'If things go wrong, if it can happen to Marty, it can happen to anyone,' " he said -- and helped ratchet up the urgency.

The coaches spent much of the summer trying to diversify their option package, in an effort to stay a step ahead. However, after that rough start, they decided to revert to what they'd done well in 2011 in those looks, which helped Newton play faster. By taking some things off of Newton's plate, offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski and quarterbacks coach Mike Shula could focus on quickening Newton's decision-making and refining his footwork. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000109812/article/cam-newton-simply-misunderstood-panthers-coach-says

 

Nothing else needs to be said. 

 

Rivera was CLEARY aware/involved with Chud's offensive changes for the upcoming season, and took great notice when Hurney was fired, and responded accordingly. 

 

What else do you want. Someone to write it on your forehead?

 

PS: Notice, it was also in this article, where Rivera addressed, lessening the read option decision making for Cam (and going back to what he was doing well in 2011), which was totally misquoted by so many who disliked, and even liked Cam. SMH/LOL

 

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Thanks for the quote...

But I don't see where Rivera said he was in on Chuds decision to abandon the run... (the entire reason I'm having this conversation with you is because of Williams' comments about them planning to run the ball but not ever doing it).

In fact I see a part in the article that says the coaches tried to diversify the read option. While that wasn't a great idea, it does show that they did plan to run the ball...

The only thing that I get out of this article is the fact that Chud and Rivera and possibly even Shula were responsible for the read option debacle...

This doesn't explain why Williams got less than eight carries per game.

Was Chud so inept that he couldn't adapt and call a simple draw play (when he saw that the read option wasn't working) instead of throwing the ball on fourth and two?

I sure hope not.

[nickzz]

if we go 9-7 chances are 2 of those losses are purely from dumbass decisions that rivera makes. it will take a few years of success (playoffs) for me to consider rivera anything but an idiot.

[Cyberjag]

Somehow I need to figure out how to get CarolinaPanthers8789 and CRA to come to my place of work and do my next performance evaluation.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Somehow I need to figure out how to get CarolinaPanthers8789 and CRA to come to my place of work and do my next performance evaluation.

Give me 20 bucks and I'll give you an A+ in math.

[FootballMaestro]

Thanks for the quote...

But I don't see where Rivera said he was in on Chuds decision to abandon the run... (the entire reason I'm having this conversation with you is because of Williams' comments about them planning to run the ball but not ever doing it).

In fact I see a part in the article that says the coaches tried to diversify the read option. While that wasn't a great idea, it does show that they did plan to run the ball...

The only thing that I get out of this article is the fact that Chud and Rivera and possibly even Shula were responsible for the read option debacle...

This doesn't explain why Williams got less than eight carries per game.

Was Chud so inept that he couldn't adapt and call a simple draw play (when he saw that the read option wasn't working) instead of throwing the ball on fourth and two?

I sure hope not.

 

No problem/You're welcome.

 

Unfortunately, I wasn't really addressing  D'Angelo's quote per se. As I said to you before [regarding something else] that was your argument, and wasn't really my focus (with all due respect to yours). But I certainly respect and understand your D'Angelo point of view. 

 

My focus was on Rivera-as Head Coach, and what was he know, or didn't know before the season started, and how/what he responded to during the middle of it (as we discussed). 

 

Yes, Rivera and Chud planned to focus on more read option, but diversify it a little. How, we don't know? I just think it was crazy for them, to focus on the Read Option in the first place, instead of keeping the offense they had the previous year [various sets, traditional play action], with plenty of conventional, mixed in with Read Option, which Cam did so well in. 

 

Subsequently, they also admitted in that article, '[that they] decided to go back to what Cam did well the previous year', presumably with less Read Option, and Cam decision making while doing it. Of course, that quote, got widely misquoted by many Cam haters ('lessening his plate'), and even Huddlers. Lol

 

As far as Chud and his play calling/versatility: Several players (including Steve Smith and Olsen on WFAN, and others), have alluded to the fact, that Chud was quite inflexible to the position coaches ideas overall, and during games, as you alluded to, provided earlier. 

 

It appears, Chud was feast or famine (particularly) year two on this team. Lol

 

[Peppers90 NC]

first time opening this thread.  you can't possibly make such a black and white statement in this part of the year.  what if we started 7-2 and finished 9-7, you dont think he should be fired?

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Unfortunately, I wasn't really addressing D'Angelo's quote per se. As I said to you before [regarding something else] that was your argument, and wasn't really my focus (with all due respect to yours). But I certainly respect and understand yours.

My focus was on Rivera-as Head Coach, and what was he know, or didn't know before the season started, and how/what he responded to during the middle of it.

Yes, Rivera and Chud planned to focus on more read option, but diversify it a little. How, we don't know? I just think it was crazy for them, to focus on the Read Option in the first place, instead of keeping the offense they had the previous year [various sets, traditional play action], with plenty of conventional, mixed in with Read Option, which Cam did so well in.

Subsequently, they also admitted in that article, '[that they] decided to go back to what Cam did well the previous year', presumably with less Read Option, and Cam decision making while doing it. Of course, that quote, got widely misquoted by many Cam haters, and even Huddlers. Lol

As far as Chud and his play calling/versatility: Several players (including Steve Smith and Olsen on WFAN, and others), have alluded to the fact, that Chud was quite inflexible to the position coaches ideas and during games, as you alluded provided earlier.

It appears, Chud was feast or famine (particularly) year two on this team. Lol

Oh okay... Sorry lol

It was just a little misunderstanding lol

[FootballMaestro]

Oh okay... Sorry lol

It was just a little misunderstanding lol

 

No probs. 

 

And I even added "thank you" on my last post. 

 

Lol