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If Kenjon Barner shows competence, is Deangelo gone on June 1?

May 07 2013 08:15 AM Zod Carolina Panthers
Kenjon Barner is a wiry 5'9 and 196 which is a good contrast to Stewart. His running style is more like Deangelo's than Jonathan, relying more on being elusive than powering through the defense.

The biggest knocks on Barner coming out was his propensity to run high and cut to the outside too much instead of taking it between the tackles.

Fast Forward to May practices outside of Bank of America Stadium.

Jim Skipper is once again the running backs coach. If he sees progress with Barner will that push the Deangelo cap issue to the forefront? How much progress will need to be seen?

For instance, lets say they coach him into running lower relatively easily. This shows real promise that he will improve as a prospect throughout camp. Some running backs NEVER learn to run lower (Eric Shelton).

So if he shows at least some real progress in just a few weeks, would that be enough to cut Deangelo Williams and save millions?

Do you think the friendship between Jim Skipper and Deangelo Williams effects his judgement or will Gettleman not allow personal feelings to be involved?

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114 Comments

:: before

barner showing promise + needing cap space to sign a player of need that becomes available = deangelo williams cut

I don't believe any scenario will result in Deangelo being cut this year.  I also believe there is no scenario where he will be on the team next year.

Gettleman will go with strategy over tactics every time if he wants to keep his job.

This organization must begin thinking longer term than "next year" in order to rise-to and maintain any type of success.

Kraken has a contract coming up, Cam has a contract coming up, Kuechly will soon have a contract coming up...Gettleman must act prudently for the next 3 to 5 years just for us to maintain our core players.

I hate to say it but, if Barner shows much of anything....DeAngelo must go.



I don't believe any scenario will result in Deangelo being cut this year.  I also believe there is no scenario where he will be on the team next year.

 

gettlemen's responses to williams's status for this season say otherwise.

I think it also has more to do with cost vs production.

 

DeAngelo could go somewhere else this year and be a 1,000 yard back but it will be for a fraction of what we are paying him and that team will not have better options on the team.

 

 

Deangelo isnt getting any younger.  If hes not going to be completely utilized this year, then there's no reason to keep him on the team.  If I am Deangelo and I am told I will be the #2 back, I demand to be released or traded.  If I am carolina, and I do plan on making Deangelo #1 back, I don't want him going through the season worrying about what will happen at the end of the season.  This needs to be resolved before the season starts or it could end up as a major distraction to the team.

Deangelo isnt getting any younger.  If hes not going to be completely utilized this year, then there's no reason to keep him on the team.  If I am Deangelo and I am told I will be the #2 back, I demand to be released or traded.  If I am carolina, and I do plan on making Deangelo #1 back, I don't want him going through the season worrying about what will happen at the end of the season.  This needs to be resolved before the season starts or it could end up as a major distraction to the team.

 

williams is already the number 2 back. 

williams is already the number 2 back. 

 

no, everyone will compete in training camp, nothing is set yet.

Deangelo isnt getting any younger.  If hes not going to be completely utilized this year, then there's no reason to keep him on the team.  If I am Deangelo and I am told I will be the #2 back, I demand to be released or traded.  If I am carolina, and I do plan on making Deangelo #1 back, I don't want him going through the season worrying about what will happen at the end of the season.  This needs to be resolved before the season starts or it could end up as a major distraction to the team.

Why would DWill demand to be released?  He is being paid like an elite #1 back.  He will not get anywhere near that kind of money anywhere else.

Barnet just needs to prove he looks ready enough to play a small role and maybe touch the 5 times a game.
I'll say it again: Pass protection most likely keeps Williams around.

Why would DWill demand to be released?  He is being paid like an elite #1 back.  He will not get anywhere near that kind of money anywhere else.

 

Exactly.

no, everyone will compete in training camp, nothing is set yet.


Stewart was the primary RB in 2011

Williams was demoted in name as well in 2012.

If Stewart is healthy, Williams is the #2.

I'll say it again: Pass protection most likely keeps Williams around.

 

That is an awful lot of cap space to tie up for that reason.

 

But, you could very well be correct.

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Who Said What?
May 07 2013 08:45 AM

I do not think so.  Gettleman has only been signing vets on one year minimums, so why would he not give D-lo one more year if it only going to give us a few million?  I would be livid if during the season, Stewart went down and we had to start Barner.  Tolbert could step up too, but he is not as explosive as Deangelo.  We should use this year to prep Barner like San Fran did his former teammate James.  We can correct the running style and the fumble-itis, and pass protection.

Deangelo isnt getting any younger.  If hes not going to be completely utilized this year, then there's no reason to keep him on the team.  If I am Deangelo and I am told I will be the #2 back, I demand to be released or traded.  If I am carolina, and I do plan on making Deangelo #1 back, I don't want him going through the season worrying about what will happen at the end of the season.  This needs to be resolved before the season starts or it could end up as a major distraction to the team.

 

We have run a 2 back system for years now.  Deangelo and Stewart are both friends and both getting paid.  I don't think that's as huge an issue as it would be on another team.   I see Barner fulfilling the Goodsen role.  Special teams, some third down situations.  However we will definitely know by end of year if he is the answer.  I see no way Deangelo is on the rooster after this season, we already have seen in earlier post his trade value is basically slightly higher than Clausen, plus the team is already on the hook salary cap wise.  
 

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Way Truth Life
May 07 2013 08:50 AM

Williams is the best RB on the team, but his contract is not guaranteed so he saves almost $4 million in cap space this year.  He is gone.  Sucks but what are we going to do?  Pay Stewart and Williams #1 RB money and use Newton as our primary runner?  

 

Stewart already restructured his contract and his $ is guaranteed so he isn't going anywhere unless there is some crazy team willing to trade for him.

 

It's a mess.

Williams is the best RB on the team, but his contract is not guaranteed so he saves almost $4 million in cap space this year. He is gone. Sucks but what are we going to do? Pay Stewart and Williams #1 RB money and use Newton as our primary runner?

Stewart already restructured his contract and his $ is guaranteed so he isn't going anywhere unless there is some crazy team willing to trade for him.

It's a mess.


Then why for the past 2 years do they think Stewart should see the field more than Williams?
Not a fan of cutting our most productive rb. Yea he was demoted last season but only on paper as he received more carries than when he was the "starter" plus Stewart didn't exactly shine in the starting roll. Deangelo was a key factor in our wins down the stretch.

I'd try my damndest to try him for anything I can get just to dump his contract.

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Who Said What?
May 07 2013 09:45 AM

Not a fan of cutting our most productive rb. Yea he was demoted last season but only on paper as he received more carries than when he was the "starter" plus Stewart didn't exactly shine in the starting roll. Deangelo was a key factor in our wins down the stretch.

 

I thought that as well at the end of last year.  I came on the huddle to argue Stewart vs D-Lo and I was bombarded with nonsense about how the opposing defenses were terrible at the end of the year.  Deangelo > Stewart and only three years older.  I do believe his astronomical contract was over the top, but I still would have signed Deangelo two years ago and let Stewart walk this offseason.  At least if we would have waited to sign him, we would have had a ton of leverage.

gettlemen's responses to williams's status for this season say otherwise.

yep. very non-committal. williams remaining tenure with us long term or short term is anything but sure.

 

I think it also has more to do with cost vs production.

 

DeAngelo could go somewhere else this year and be a 1,000 yard back but it will be for a fraction of what we are paying him and that team will not have better options on the team.

he will be the 7th highest paid RB in the league this year and the 4th highest paid the next couple years after that. this year he is behind ADP, chris johnson, marshawn lynch, mcfadden, arian foster, and MJD. next year behind only ADP, johnson, and shady mccoy. no way does his production, even at his best, warrant that kind of pay. you take away the less than one 20+ yarder per game and what does he have left as far as production? it's not 5ypa. it's not 75 yards a game. since '09 he hasn't had a 100+ yard game against a team that wasn't the saints and he's only done that twice. he had 18 rushing TDs in 2008. since then he's had 20 rushing TDs. that's 4 years with an average of 5 TDs.

 

he's a part time role player. even if, as some say, he hasn't lost a step (which i don't buy, but whatever) does his production and part time usage warrant that kind of pay? is he THAT important of a figure to the team to have him be the third highest paid player on the team? he's behind beason and johnson. you could argue that beason doesn't deserve that much pay considering being on IR for two years and losing his MLB spot to a rookie, but even at that he's got a starting gig when he does come back and will likely see the field on at least half the snaps on defense. williams time on the field won't come close to that.

 

it's not about williams...it's all about his contract, and it's just too high for what we're getting. and that level of production is easily replaceable by players currently on the roster.

 

Why would DWill demand to be released?  He is being paid like an elite #1 back.  He will not get anywhere near that kind of money anywhere else.

no one would pay that amount of money to him.
no one but us.

 

but even if you take away that money, it's doubtful he would be able to be a featured back anywhere in the league. any team that takes him would only take him to be part of a committee. his time has come and gone where he could be the featured back somewhere.

I'd try my damndest to try him for anything I can get just to dump his contract.

 

agreed. might have to wait until after next year, tho. we'll see what we've got in the barner kid and be glad for having less of a cap hit after the year.

 

if williams doesn't take a significant pay cut, we'll have very little justification for keeping him around.

he is the most talented RB we have, however we don't use him right, nor enough, to justify his contract. 

I think Williams is gone no matter what. We have got to sign Hardy to a new contract before the season starts and releasing Williams might allow that to happen.

 

It will be sad to see - Stewart and DWill in their glory days were so fun to watch. But that era ended when we signed Cam.