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For any criticism I may have for Adam Thielen he does at least have a minimal semblance of contribution. Andy Dalton on the other hand while being a great guy is absolutely horrendous. We could have signed literally anyone else and it would have been a significant upgrade. The New Orleans Saints who are in complete disarray at QB rejected him. That was a poverty franchise signing that we made to appease our starter. Nothing more.

I missed the part where the league office forced us to sign Adam Thielen. What teams were clamoring to sign him and make him an integral point of their offense? So far we're the ones trying to convince other teams Thielen actually has something left in the tank. And what's our win percentage the last few years? Worst in professional sports?

We should stop throwing to the guy who gets open and catches the ball. I'm sure that'll help the offense.

This keeps circling back to the point of... who was supposed to be targeted? The next best option was a rookie drafted at the end of the first round and he got 84 targets over 16 games. Between Coker's emergence and the additions of TMac + Horn Jr, AT is going to see his opportunities going to younger guys. Fretting that he got so many targets last season when Diontae Johnson washed out, XL struggled, and they were left with David Moore as the next best option seems to be missing the forest for the trees.

I think all contracts should be fully guaranteed...fug those billionaires and their money.

Thielen at 8.75 million puts him at like the 35th highest paid wide receiver and that's including many guys on rookie deals who are clearly going to make more soon. Would we have been better off signing Josh Palmer, Dyami Brown, or Tutu Atwell who are getting paid about 1 million more per year? Andy Dalton's contract is 8 million but it's for two years so it's 4 million a year. This puts him around the range of Josh Dobbs, Jameis Winston, Davis Mills, etc. This is a normal range for back up quarterbacks. Why exactly you are you singling out these guys who are making salaries on par with many of their other peers given their production level?

This is entirely incorrect, while he could sue the NCAA and get to play again, if he plays a single snap of football in UFL or NCAA his rights are retained by the Bengals next year, he has to sit out the entire year for him to be able to re-enter the draft a la like Michael Crabtree almost did vs the 49ers his rookie year.

Frank, I feel like you do regarding this receiver thing at the end of the day. Yeah, investing in young receivers is the way to go in most situations. But, vets have their place. It just depends upon the team's individual situation and goals and the perceived value of the player and contract. It seems to me that at this point you're just going on about nothing in terms of Adam Thielen. It's neither that serious or important. In my opinion, our receiving corps can make good with him or without him. I don't think we'll be cutting any youngster with promise for AT if it comes down to that. But right now he's still a pretty decent value.

Sure, I agree with you to some extent. But a lot of us put our bodies and very lives on the line in necessary jobs (remember Covid). And I realize that opens up another real can of worms and questions that won't be answered here, but when the "failure" rate is somewhere around 50 percent, and the median length of a career for a second rounder is four years (per Google AI), is it really fair for them to make millions? Does it really make sense from a purely business perspective? I realize that the question is very much loaded, but at some point we must ponder these questions from all perspectives.

Thielen got hurt and only played ten games last season but had 62 targets. That's 6 targets a game over the course of 17 games that would have been 105 targets. That would have put him well ahead of Xavier Legette who led our receivers in targets with 84. For comparison sake David Moore played all 17 games and only had 57 targets. We've been overvaluing Thielen in the passing game the last two years any way you cut it.

https://x.com/kelseylconway/status/1945187458339233989?s=46

Reporters already came out and said he is not working out with the team at his college. He is just working out at the facilities there in preparation for his rookie season.

Pretty much. His draft status revolved entirely around his measurables and athletic potential. Another year of trash college production would pour a lot of cold water on that.

Unless he has an incredible double digit type season he has effectively tanked his draft stock and shot himself in the foot

I can't speak to whatever underlying issues there may be with Shemar off the field so to speak. But in terms of the responsibility of the franchise. The Bengals had ample opportunity to study interview assess and identify the draft prospects they were interested in. They made the choice to draft Stewart. They should face a steep punishment for allowing this to play out the way it did because they got buyers remorse. The league should make an example out of them and deservedly so.

This might get really interesting. Evidently he's back at TAMU working out with the team and might just try to play college ball again this year. Wild. If he could win the ability to play college ball again after entering the draft it's gonna turn the draft upside down. Basically anyone who doesn't like their draft position or landing spot or whatever could basically just say screw that and go back to college again, cash another NIL check and try again next year.

Oh for sure. I think it was always an effort of poor roster building relying on unproven youngsters and an over the hill vet. But here we go again. It's the same story again this year. Hopefully it works out better this go round.

Of course. But they already do that. The billionaire owners hold cities ransom and force taxpayers to fund their stadiums. For me. I'd rather see a young rookie athlete who will be risking themselves every time they take the field receive a fair contract. At the end of the day these are low end contracts compared to some of the MLB level deals given out to other big name players. I'd certainly rather see that before seeing another billionaire owner receiving taxpayer funds while pocketing tens of billions in annual shared revenue and whose franchises only increase in value even if the teams in question are good or bad.

I really don't know how they should work this out. I can see all sides, and I really don't think there's a black and white here, the entire situation is too complex and all the teams are too intermingled. Regardless of how you think about these contracts, if the NFL does begin guaranteeing larger amounts of money then some type of way they're going to try and shake us--FANS--down for more money, and I ain't gonna pay it because they can't guarantee me good football.

The NFL eats giant bad contracts all the time. I looked and the 3rd starts at 6.7 at pick 67 and 6.1 at pick 96. With the way the NFL cap keeps going up and how they all work the cap it really shouldn't be an issue for any team that can get 1 year out of rookies. Maybe it would cut down on teams taking giant leaps on guys they shouldn't? This would have got Hurney fired in 3 years lol

Nothing wrong with starting to look for bodies early. It's a long injury filled season. I doubt we get through unscathed.

We're in alignment regarding Thielen not being a game changer/breaker for the Panthers. Getting the ball into hands of playmakers like TMac and XL is going to open up things more than it is getting it to Thielen underneath (or letting him go after 50/50 balls 20yds downfield in his mid-30s). However, in a room where the other guys are two second year guys and two rookies, having a reliable vet that they can learn from is just as important as it is for the QB to have as a reliable third option. I can see that being worth $8.5M (just 3%) of the $279.2M cap... especially when looking at what's left out there: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/position/wr However, the idea that the team is forcing production to Thielen and leading to losses isn't supported by the data. Targets, not receiving yards, are how you can tell if a player is being "force fed." In the two games mentioned, let's look at the other players available... vs. TB 10 targets - Adam Thielen 9 targets - David Moore 8 targets - Tommy Tremble, Xavier Legette 3 targets - Jonathon Brooks 1 target - Dan Chisena, Feleipe Franks, Stephen Sullivan vs. PHI 11 targets - Adam Thielen 8 targets - Xavier Legette 5 targets - Chuba Hubbard, David Moore 2 targets - Tommy Tremble 1 target - Ja'Tavion Sanders, Deven Thompkins There isn't exactly a bounty of other names to throw the ball to. In those games, AT was one of the top 2 WRs. Diontae had been gone by that point. So... yea. Agreed that Thielen isn't exactly carrying the team in his mid-30s, but it's undeniable that he was the most reliable target last season that still has quite a bit of value this season. Whether or not that value is reflected in a manner folks think on the contract is going to come down to personal taste. However, the idea that the team was forcing production to AT and that was the reason behind some losses couldn't be further from the truth.

I would also add that I think it's more than money. AT has looked absolutely miserable out there at times, and there was a lot of speculation he would demand to be traded. Personally, I thought he was a lock to be moved last year. Maybe his hamstring is the only thing that prevents that from happening. The fact that he's not only willing to come back and play, but excited about it, really bodes well for Bryce. AT is a veteran and he knows the game. If he didn't have confidence in Bryce, I guarantee you he wouldn't be in a Panther uniform this year. I'll take that as a positive.

Two wins bud. 2 wins. Accept it.

Some folks get a tingle in their plums over older veterans and call other folks dumb over it. I'm just glad we made the investment in WR. Tetairoa Xavier and Jalen are the future and I look forward to seeing them bring a resurgence to their respective position group. Simple and plain.