MasterAwesome

It's *Eddy* Pineiro, put some respeck on his name! He might be our best player

Footage = game tape from Weeks 1-3. I'm not talking about college tape. I'm talking about the footage that shows our o-line being manhandled, receivers being blanketed and/or poorly executing on their routes, questionable playcalling resulting in a lot of 3rd and longs, etc.

You can make any declarations you want. It's just meaningless...I can make a preseason declaration that Jonathan Mingo was going to break the single season receiving record and catch 47 TDs and win League MVP. I just don't get to point to it 3 games into the season and say that it still holds up because I said it. I.e. making a preseason declaration that Bryce was going into the best situation of all three rookie QBs doesn't necessarily make it so when we actually have footage to review. The former is speculative, the latter is empirical.

Huh? You've genuinely lost me...I'm literally engaging with you in discussion right now. So I don't know why you're acting like I'm wanting to censor these kinds of discussions. First off, can you point out anyone who is saying that Bryce has played better than Stroud or Richardson so far? You like to call people out for mischaracterizing others' positions and tell them to quote people who said X or Y things. So I'd like you to point out who is saying Bryce has played the best out of the three QBs so far. Rather, people are attempting to rationalize Bryce's struggles. I.e. he's a rookie with 2 starts, his o-line has been awful, his receivers aren't getting separation, playcalling has been uncreative, etc. You and others wanting to strawman this into people claiming Bryce is playing awesome so far, is just dishonest. I understand why you do it because it's such an easy slam-dunk claim to debunk. He objectively has not been playing good. We know that. The difference is in how much blame rests on Bryce's shoulders and his long-term career outlook. The whole "it's just 3 games" argument - this is specifically in response to career projection/long-term outlook. People saying "it's just 3 games" are saying it's too soon to tell who is going to have a better career between the three of them. Do you actually disagree with that? I hope not...that shouldn't be a contentious position. But you can still evaluate Bryce's supporting cast and our team's performance in 3 games. Hell, you can do it 1 game. Again, that goes to my previous point about rationalizing Bryce's struggles. It makes sense to say "it's just 3 games" when judging whether Bryce will ultimately pan out or not. It doesn't make sense to say "it's just 3 games" to completely disregard how each team's supporting cast has been performing thus far. Does that clarify things?

^ his post in reference

This seems to align with what @TheCasillas said when he was in the process of reviewing the All-22 game tape for Week 2. Playcalling wasn't bad, just awful execution in a lot of cases. (miss you buddy, the Huddle is a dark hopeless place without your sage wisdom)

That's fine. I will join you in saying that I am merely making an educated guess when I say you are a conspiracy theorist. Not my fault if you can't handle that people are going to call you that when you're constantly proposing nefarious alternative outlandish explanations for everything, that have zero evidentiary backing. It's becoming a bit cartoonish and I think if you were a bit more self-aware, you would realize that. Everything is you just "reading between the lines", which combined with an inherent distrust of the organization whose lines you are reading between (i.e. the Panthers in this case), this is exactly how conspiracy theories are formed and gain momentum. I'm not going to go into the parallels with the real world because that's obviously a topic more suited for the Tinderbox. At the end of the day, this is just football so these are relatively harmless conspiracy theories so it's whatever. You do you and I'll do my best to not engage and just roll my eyes and keep scrolling.

What is the relevance of what our situations looked like "going into the season" when we're heading into Week 4 and actually have empirical evidence to evaluate? Going into the season, Icky was our stalwart LT...now he's unfortunately resembling more of a turnstile. Which impression do you think is more relevant to current day? Going into the season, we had a pretty strong ILB duo. Now Shaq and Frankie are both injured. Going into the season, Chuba was considered a joke on these boards and most people didn't even want him on the roster. Now people are saying he's our best RB and want him to get more carries over Miles. One more, and I know you'll love this one: going into the season, Bryce was considered the most "pro ready" QB with the easiest transition. Now going into Week 4, he has struggled more than either Stroud or Richardson. Do we favor the pre-season perception or should we favor the actual game tape this season? You're right about the perception of us vs. the Texans before the season, but historical perception does not often equate to current reality.

What a weird argument... Bryce Young was drafted 1st, CJ Stroud was drafted 2nd. Checkmate! Bryce > CJ

Conspiratorial thinking is like a disease...if your brain is wired that way, it's very difficult to become de-programmed and certainly not on an internet message board. So I respect the commitment, but it's a lost cause. I spent a lot of time with him last offseason going back and forth about his theory that Matt Rhule was going to intentionally start Sam Darnold to begin the season...even though he thought Baker was the better QB...just so that he could wait until Darnold got boo'ed off the field a few games into the season, and then bring Baker Mayfield in to save the day to the cheers of the crowd in order to buy himself more time and cool off his hot seat.

The award for "Least Self-aware Poster" goes to....

I don't think it makes sense to use the collective "we" because this all seems to boil down to what your personal expectations were for Bryce. If you are using Cam's rookie season as the bar and expected him to be a star from Week 1, then of course you're disappointed. If you expected he'd need some time to transition, then you're still calm and hopeful. I'm willing to be patient...we're not a playoff team anyways, certainly not with our piling injuries to key players. I don't need him to "suddenly click", I need (or at least expect) to see incremental improvement and for him to get more and more comfortable over the course of the season. I would say we certainly did see improvement from Week 1 to Week 2. It wasn't a great Week 2 performance by any stretch of the imagination, but it was a baby step in the right direction and that's OK by me.

I'm saying that we're all open and welcome of criticism of our players/team (except maybe iamhubby/Gerry Green) so I'm not sure why you still appear to be trying to explain to me why criticism is okay. I get it...I agree. Most of us who are supportive of Bryce: our entire argument revolves around him being a rookie with two starts under his belt, and how it's way too soon and honestly silly to make any judgments on him at this point. So I'm not sure that bringing up a bunch of failed retreads (Teddy, Darnold, Baker) and a couple of nobodies (Allen, PJ) makes a lot of sense to compare to Bryce. Not to mention I don't know who ever hyped up PJ Walker on here other than CRA, so that's kind of a weird one to sneak in there. If anything, I could argue that guys like Darnold and Kyle Allen are good examples to the contrary of what you're arguing. Darnold and Allen were actually pretty solid in their first few starts with us. Some people got overly excited about them, while others (like yourself, I'm assuming) were saying that it's only a matter of time before they implode and show their true colors. Those seem like good examples of why you shouldn't judge a QB too quickly after a few starts, no?

Evero seems legit, so if he wanted this guy and thinks he can do something with him, then I'm still hopeful. Weren't most of us pretty impressed by how good he looked in preseason? I remember seeing him flash multiple times. Maybe he still needs a little more coaching up, that's not necessarily an awful indictment of a third round pick. I think people are hung up on the age too much...I've said it before, just cause you're a 24 year old rookie doesn't mean you're a finished product and a technical master of your craft. He's 24 lol he'll be in his physical prime during the entirety of his rookie contract (if he makes it to the end). People act like he's already on the decline and we should trade him to the Rock Hill Nursing Home for a 2029 11th round pick.

This take would be just as valid as anyone on the opposite side saying that you and the others on here *hate* Bryce and want him to fail and that he must have f'ed your girl or w/e. Do you think that take is fair? I don't know why people are incapable of not being so incredibly hyperbolic on these boards. I'm sure I'm guilty of that as well. But I'm willing to bet all of Bryce's dozens of moms on here would fully co-sign what is stated in the article in the OP, which has plenty of criticisms of Bryce...so this talk about people wanting to shout down any criticism is just delusional and unproductive. This article is a very rational and well-articulated summary of the good and the bad with Bryce and his supporting cast. That's what I appreciate rather than "BRYCE BAD".

You see....Corbett's injury was also faked. Actually, that Corbett you've seen at training camp and walking around isn't even the real Corbett. It's a doppelganger...actually not even human - it's a shapeshifting species from a distant galaxy. The real Corbett, he died mysteriously back in 2021. The circumstances were pretty fishy. He was an undercover FBI agent, investigating David Tepper for money laundering and human trafficking. And then he suddenly disappears? I don't think so...

Even if he did say the grade, we know they'd just pivot to something else. It'd be "show us the x-rays" lol. There's a certain sense of entitlement as fans, which I do understand...I mean we're contributing our time (and often money) to this team so we are certainly "stakeholders" in a sense. But the football team is a private business at the end of the day, they are not public servants beholden to us. We're not on the board of directors. The only leverage we have as fans is to decide to walk away and stop investing in this team. But instead of actually doing that and sticking it to The Man, it's just empty posturing about how sick and tired and fed up everyone is. I'm frustrated too, but I'm actually honest with myself...I know what I signed up for, and I still get entertainment from watching us play. The second that stops happening, I'm content walking away.

I'm picturing the average Huddler struggling just to walk around normally on a healthy ankle...so an NFL athlete walking around with a minor ankle sprain must be unfathomable.

Right on cue lol. The Panthers said he'd be out 1-2 weeks. Reich said he'd have an update tomorrow, so if he comes out and is cryptic and vague about it then we can circle back to this discussion. "Walking perfectly fine"...did you think he'd be in a wheelchair or crutches for a minor lower ankle sprain? There's a difference in the level of mobility you need between "walking" vs. "running for your life from a collapsing pocket". You're acting like we don't see injured players dressed in normal clothes standing on the sideline on every single team during every single game. There's an insane number of hamstring injuries this year...are you willing to bet we won't see any of those guys on the sidelines walking around normally? Next you're gonna say Brady Christensen's bicep tear was fake because you swear you saw him in downtown Charlotte picking up a dollar that he dropped. It's clear that the level of function you need from a muscle, joint, etc. in doing day-to-day stuff (like walking) is much less demanding than what you need to play an intense physical contact sport like professional football. It's evident that there's a 1:1 correlation between people who spam the term "clown show" 10+ times a day on this board to describe this organization, and people who think the team has made up a fake injury for Young to have an excuse to sit him. Obviously if you're viewing every FO decision through a lens of mistrust and skepticism, then you're going to forego the simplest explanation that is right in front of you (see: Occam's Razor) and rationalize an alternative explanation that implies nefariousness and incompetence. I'm not even saying the FO isn't incompetent...just that there's a huge leap between "incompetent" and "shady". The latter implies the intent to deceive the public, and I don't know that I've seen any evidence that Reich and co. are that type.

Literally our last win (season finale against the Saints last season) we were down 7-0 in the first half. So yeah, it means when trailing in the 4th quarter. Still a pretty crazy stat.

Right...hilarious. So we're just playing a semantic game here I guess. I have to find a post where you called Bryce the b-word. And on the way there, I'll just have to ignore and overlook all the pie you're dishing out to anti-Bryce posts (sorry, it's for the comedic factor), all the posts where you go after people who are defending Bryce, and about 17 million posts where you're losing your mind over us not drafting Stroud. If you think Bryce is/is going to be a franchise QB, then obsessing over another team's franchise QB is weird.

Sorry, can you explain you pie'ing a post calling this the "worst trade since Sean Gilbert"? That's simply because a 2024 1st and DJ Moore is just too much for a measly franchise QB?

I think the issue people have with your takes is that they are extremely surface level. When it comes to Bryce, you basically just keep saying "Man that Bryce guy just straight up looks BAD!". But we can all see, even in this very thread, that when someone points out how objectively awful of a game Howell had, all of a sudden you're very nuanced: "Well he had a bad game, but wow that was such awful protection. They really need to fix the protection. They also need to do a better job of establishing a run game to open up play action. Oh and they need better playcalling - more screens and slants to open up the deep pass". Like...what? You could say the exact same thing with Bryce. But instead, it's "Yoooo Bryce frickin SUX amirite???".

Okay so it was what I suspected...you don't actually read what I post and you just attribute random arguments to me. I don't want Dalton starting, I want Bryce back under center ASAP. I think it's clear from my original post that I'm simply "hyping up" Dalton (in your words) to explain why he seemingly outperformed Bryce Young yesterday.

Cheers for finally admitting that. But that's the point...how does Fields get part way into his third season before you're comfortable admitting he isn't a franchise QB, but Bryce gets two games? Cause it looks like the difference is that one of them was "your guy", and the other is a guy you never wanted. And if so, then it's pointless discussing things with someone who is so entrenched in his pre-draft biases that there is no productive conversation to be had.