CRA

I find it hard to believe anyone in RH actually believed they could get the draft. Seems more like something a politician would be be using to dupe people that don’t know the NFL.

If Ron Rivera hadn't been hired to be Washigton's HC.....he would have easily found a job as DC. He wouldn't of spent years looking for a DC role if he wanted one.

I’m simply looking at the 4 years he was a playcaller. I judge him off his collective body of work. and based on the fact no one has hired him until Matt Rhule did….I think is evidence the rest of the league is looking the bad years too. I don’t think good and horrible as that hyperbolic. I mean hyperbolic is kind part of message board posting. So there is always some of that in it. But the playcalling as HC is largely what got him fired. No scapegoat existed for him. Which is just a dumb move if you are young NFL coach. need someone to blame for your early blunders. I really don't care. Mike Shula wasn't a good OC. It wasn't said a lot because people weren't acting like he was some great hire. I just don't get how it is controversal to not be exited about Ben McAdoo. I keep hearing about this great staff. I think there are some great parts to it but the HC/OC/DC are all weak by league standards IMO.

2 good + 2 horrible = what? I'm not dismissing anything. I simply am bringing into the equation what some don't want brought up. I talked about Coughlin likely being ONE of the factors that went into his playcalling going off the rails. But you basically can't mention anything without people going overboard on it. I also acknowledged some others too like the fact he probably didn't have the makeup to be a HC yet, the brutal NY press that might of been a little to harsh, etc. But now I am Coughlin super fan lol. Well, McAdoo tried to get OC jobs for the 2019, 2020, 2021 and finally the 2022 season. Only the great Matt Rhule finally came calling in 2022. I mean, that alone should tell you that league itself isn't willing to just isolate those 2 years in a vaccum in terms of him as a playcaller/OC. He would have found a job as an OC before Rhule finally took him in.

Again, he called offensive plays for the Giants for 4 seasons. You deem 2 of them off limits simply because they were horrible years. if you want to have an honest discussion then the complete resume matters. And I would assume the complete resume had a lot to do with what he failed to find an OC job despite looking for one the last 3 years. And hot seat disaster Matt Rhule happened to be the only gig he could finally get. wish him the best. But the narrative McAdoo is good just isn’t one people should be expected to agree with. If he was good, he would have been hired in 2019 or 2020 or 2021. Good OCs get hired to be OCs when they want the job. So the league obviously agrees he isn’t this hotshot prize. Or I guess you can argue Matt Rhule is just smarter than the rest of the league

We hired him to call plays. He called plays over the course of 4 seasons. I talk about all 4. you only want 2 talked about. Because the other two he received brutal criticism for.

Coughlin was simply old school from a different era than the modern day NFL O. But overtly predictable playcalls weren't actually his knock. People called Shula in Carolina overtly simple. He really wasn't. It was just boring to watch. Again, I just don't see the fixation of trying to hype McAdoo into some great hire. He isn't a great hire. Better than Joe Brady isn't much of a bar. We have a bottom 1/3 OC and DC IMO. Same w/ the HC. Yet people are calling this a great staff. It's a better staff. It's still subpar.

McAdoo's first OC job was under a long time and stable offensive oriented HC. I'm pretty sure that HC was pretty involved. Why wouldn't an expeirenced offensive HC be fairly involved with a brand spanking new OC debuting. And McAdoo's playcalling looked pretty bad in year 3 and 4 without that supervision/oversight. I mean, that isn't a radical view. That Coughlin likely was a factor in why McAdoo's playcalling took such a drastic nosedive. Not dimissing him taking on too much but most answers are complex and involve a multitude of reasons that factor. and Coughlin's teams overall were pretty consistent in the NFL. And overly simplistic playcalls weren't the signature. That's was when McAdoo had no supervision. *and those Coughlin teams at the end likely had inflated offensive stats because they lost so many games. They never won more than 6 when McAdoo arrived to be OC and were always in catchup mode. So those are numbers are going to jive up exactly with a lot of his prior teams that didn't lose.

I mean Teddy was speaking truths though. Wasn’t probably the best look for our staff.

I really think Minshew might be the QB to look at in regards to McAdoo when thinking about Corral. Really the only guy McAdoo got his hands on. I mean McAdoo worked with 2 time Super Bowl champ and 1 time Super Bowl GOAT Rodgers after their rings. Not sure that means much. Ron Rivera could be Aaron Rodgers’ QB coach.

Tabor I think was the best hire. Really surprised more didn’t pursue him. Maybe Wilks though given we are getting that caliber of coach in the role he took on. I don’t think we would no what to do as fans if we actually saw great special teams. Been so rare the last couple decades here. I still remember getting hype Mark Jones could return kicks by basically, not fumbling, just running straight at a reasonable speed lol

David Tepper said Sam Darnold was a very good QB. Would it be reasonable to assume he actually believes that? Or most likely just saying what he has to say to the media?

Cool. And I don’t care that you have told me that repeatedly in our conversations. It’s going to come up. Probably a lot. Until he is gone. Now just apply the same concept elsewhere

I mean it’s a Panther message board. Gonna be hard to a lot of Panther football conversations…if you constantly demand folks not bring up certain things/topics/points. I mean pick something. Sam Darnold. You can’t demand it no longer get brought up as long as he is QB1 on our depth chart. It’s just going to happen.

I mean it’s just a fact he was a horrible playcaller when he was the HC in NY. That’s not schtick. Calling water wet is a problem for you. That’s clear. Feel free to ignore it. I mean, I have said Joe Brady should of never been hired here and maybe a select few teams could of tried to that type experiment. But very few really had the environment for that type gamble. You call me a Joe Brady super fan because you don’t want to acknowledge what a bad architect Matt Rhule was for his offense. And it’s him we should be talking about. And Matt Rhule is always the context of Joe Brady being relevant to a conversation. If McAdoo has success I’ll be happy to give him props. But people are reinventing him IMO into some great hire that people are suppose to be giddy about. We have a cast people demand people be happy about. Tepper, Rhule….even the McAdoo types have to earn it at this stage IMO. No one would touch McAdoo as OC for years. Bumbling Matt Rhule finally would. That’s probably a red flag in itself.

I brought up Coughlin because he was a long time and stable coach in the NFL. Giants didn’t have a losing season from 2005 to 2012 under him. Had 4 straight winning seasons in freaking Jacksonville. Coughlin is flawed and not great. Stable? Yes. And an offensive guy. Was exploring variables in regards to the Giants as to why he was brought up the narrative in the Giants overly predictable playcalling only appeared when McAdoo had no boss. I’m sure it wasn’t just one thing that lead to it getting so bad.

and pretty watered down QBs. Who don’t need to be leaders. Just fall in and play your role. Teddy saw what happens when you don’t fall in line.

Cool then. I thought you were arguing his predictable offensive playcalling wasn’t one of his primary issue as the Giants HC.

I mean there are a hundred articles detailing it. So I’ll repeat, as I told you earlier we could debate the why it was what it was….but you can’t deny the issue of predictable playcalling was McAdoo’s signature as the HC of the Giants.

@poundaway The Giants struggled offensively despite a boat load of talent, and while there was plenty of blame to go around, there’s no denying the offensive play selection had a lot to do with it. At his year-end press conference, McAdoo acknowledged the coaching staff would evaluate his decision to call plays and that, perhaps, something would change. And on Sunday at the NFL Owners Meetings, even John Mara admitted to questioning McAdoo’s decision to continue calling plays. https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2017/03/27/new-york-giants-have-questioned-ben-mcadoo-over-calling-offensive-plays/ this is coming off year 1. The winning season. The McAdoo playcalling issue was a constant theme and probably his issue #1 as a HC. An issue that came about year 1 as HC. The narrative/problem then rolled into year 2. He refused to give it up despite all the heat after year 1. 5 games into year 2 he finally caved to the heat and pressure and gave it up. Then fired shortly after that. My brother in law is a huge Giants fan. He might be better than Joe Brady. But predictability isn’t something we can claim McAdoo won’t be bringing to the table too.

I mean McAdoo coached in NY. It’s pretty well documented his predictable playcalling while HC was one of the primary narratives. I mean you can debate the why it was what it was….but to act like that wasn’t a McAdoo issue is just revisionist storytelling.

Well, I guess there is one more question to ask….how involved was Tom Coughlin in the playcalling when McAdoo was OC. A long time stable NFL offensive guy. How much of a factor was that Coughlin in making the McAdoo pure OC years okay…..vs McAdoo being blasted as a horrible playcaller as HC. probably a mix of a lot things IMO. Not sure taking on too much as a HC fully explains how bad his playcalling was received as HC. but in his defense, I guess we could factor in the NY market being the most brutal that exists too. So they could of come at him harder than what he deserved *Rhule shouldn’t of hired Brady. A team that hired him would have needed to put a green OC like that in a position to succeed and grow. And take lumps. And nothing about year 2 was about that. Joe Brady is only relevant in the context of the big picture mismanagement of the O. And I simply refuse to allow him to the catch all for everyone else’s blunders in the mess. They need to own there part in it. And a lot of that is simply on Matt Rhule. He hired a newb passing OC and gave him Sam Darnold, a bad OL, and basically no legit NFL mentorship to help lol. The problem wasn’t so much Joe Brady but the architect of it all IMO. That’s designed to fail and predictably did just that.

I'm still waiting on this smooth talking wordsmith to make an appearnce. He largely just comes across as a fast talking salesman that doesn't really inspire confidence. But in fairness, I can't really get past the Matt Rhule that really emerged last camp through last season. Can't really remember what he sounded like when he first arrived.

McAdoo was also the playcaller when has the HC too. So it can't be totally disregarded. He called the plays his entire first year as HC. He called them to start his 2nd year as HC too. He got a lot of heat for the playcalling as HC and being too predictable. Running the same plays over and over.