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I couldn't make it past the first point of Frank not wanting Bryce. OP is a conspiracy theorist that refuses to listen facts and thinks he knows it all. I know this is true because the OP told me what this type garbage being talked about really is. OR.....maybe he is the only one that can engage in it.

I did this really quick but I think it correct. I don't think it makes any grand point given there are so many variables but here are the points per game by HC/OC duo of the Tepper era. Wilks/McAdoo - 22 points per game Ron/Turner - 22 points per game Rhule/Brady - 21 points per game Rhule/McAdoo - 18 points per game Frank/Brown - 17 points per game Fewell/Turner - 15 points per game Rhule/Nixon - 13 points per game basically Frank/Brown are outperforming part of the interim crowd at this rate. *title says scoring offense but it's just the PPG # being used for clarification.

there is always a time for scapegoat changes though. That's the NFL. That's what I think we see after Thursday if we lose. And then folks can act like that one issue somehow will matter despite it being a host of issues. Because nothing they do will put us on a better course. Subtraction doesn't help. We need addition that we can't see until some point after this season is over.

part of that was also a VERY veteran QB having to throw the most passes in his entire long career vs a meh D for the team to finally post a respectable day. I mean, even in our "good".....you see the red flags. And if you replay that game it probably doesn't go as good as Dalton probably got a little lucky vs some of the pressures. Got to think at that rate they saw and we survived....we don't deal with that as good. But yeah, Dalton is better and should be better than Bryce in that scenario.

I'm done spending money on them. Walked out of the game after the 2nd pick 6 yesterday. And at no point during the actual game did I feel like this team could do anything except really exploit a mistake. 2 biggest plays, that weren't really big in the Hurst pass and Chark TD, really just felt like blown coverage. It's like all we can do is hope someone makes a mistake. It was just boring. They are boring and bad. What Tepper deserves is empty seats. That's the only way to communicate with him.

I mean, opposing defenses have an easy life out there and its leads to potentially big days for every D we will face. there isn’t one singular reason for this mess. It’s them all put together. But that’s 100% part of it, bro.

Oh I agree nothing will actually matter, just that I feel this will be where we see the most change we see happen if we lose. Whatever that will be. This will essentially be treated as the bottom by Tepper IMO. He will want some face saving/blame moves and will get them if we take the L.

They did. But I stated last week the core of this O is simply Frank’s standard O. The 60% Brown acknowledged. Brown didn’t make that base up out of thin air. Frank dictated what the base would be. It’s the primary part we have used and relied upon. The 40% isn’t called 40% of the time. It just exists in a book. We are just running the Frank O with all its standard flaws that showed in Indy and SD.

Be careful. That type statement will have some people flipping out

As mad as people are nothing is going to change most likely going into this short week BUT…. if we lose to the Bears…we will see some action go down in Charlotte. I don’t know what that will mean but it will be something. Bryce getting time off, Frank going back to playcaller, Fitt taking it on the chin, some random firings at skill positions, who knows.. But I just don’t see a world where we lose to the Bears and nothing happens. The embarrassment will reach it’s peak on prime time vs the team we are going to be gifting the #1 overall pick to. And you know that narrative and talk is going to be big. And potentially losing to to a random late round rookie backup QB with our #1 overall QB. this is the Panthers Super Bowl

The Weinke Panthers > 2010 or 2023 Panthers.

I largely put that on management of the entire operation. If you asked Joe Burrow to run Lamar Jackson’s O and Burrow then sucks….is that Burrow sucking or the Bengals being clueless with their talent? If we put Thielen on the outside and run go routes all game and he finished with 0 additional catches the rest of the year? Did Thielen get worse or is he be asked to do the wrong thing. This OL was not built nor acquired to run this offense. They don’t fit it nor what they are asked to be each week. So I largely put it on coaching and management. Even if this O is their ideal vision they don’t have the talent for it yet. And they aren’t adjusting to that fact. At all. The OL sucks. They 100% suck. I just think you gotta acknowledge why they suck and it’s a choice the staff made.

Panthers are in a tough spot they billed themselves a plug in a QB and win team. we have been horrid. So let’s say you want argue Bryce isn’t the problem….then you have to identify the problems (and they have to be big ones)….and change them. you basically have to at a bare minimum have to pick Bryce, GM or coaches. I’d love for the sunshine brigade to start addressing where the change is supposed to come from.

really tough seeing CJ Stroud out there setting NFL records without an all star staff and win now FA adds. 470 yards and 5 TDs today. CJ might not be consistent yet but the rookie 100000% shows he has special to him. Bryce was always a high floor low ceiling option. Turns out his floor wasn’t as high as we thought

Finally home from that disaster. it occurred to me today during the game….as a collective O (we have better QB play) but this is a variation 2010. At no point do you think the Panthers can actually attack or challenge anyone. We are a death by a thousand paper cuts O that might get lucky if there is a busted play. So boring and painful to watch.

Every situation is always its owns story though. And Peppers wanted a deal that never came when he wanted it….and then didn’t. Time and minds change.

Just to be clear, the bag he fumbled was the 2 first rounders and then some the Rams offered. I don’t think he should of traded him this past week for what dudes were going for

Point is it happens. At an often enough rate given most of your players you draft aren’t studs to begin with. And not just us. All teams. Every situation is it’s own story. There isn’t one path to why any of it happens. Burns situation is messy enough at this point where IMO you have to concede that can happen. Probably not the most likely. Grossly overpaying him is most likely. But there is also time. And time changes what people think and wants. So next time they talk both could be in different places. Peppers was a mix of that, situation just got to a place Peppers no longer want our check. He didn’t want to play here and be what we wanted out of him. He wanted to play elsewhere at the end. More can happen with this Burns thing the longer it goes. And I do think it’s always relevant when a player has never had a winning season and what that brings into an equation

What did we get for Julius Peppers? What did we get for Star Lotulelei? What did we get for Josh Norman? Those were all elite at the time they walked out the door and we got diddly. And there are plenty of guys that we let play elsewhere too and got nothing in return for them too. Because of management of things we got nothing for Panther HOFers like Steve Smith, Cam Newton, etc. Poorly managed. History matters. It’s why we study it. So you are aware of what has happened and can again. And it’s safe to say, this is already on a rocky pathway. And we aren’t unique. Players walk all the time with teams getting nothing. I mean to deny the possibility of such is well….

2019- Tied with 4 others for 49th in sacks 2020 - T with 6 for 14th in sacks 2021 - T with 8 for 21st in sacks 2022 - T with 3 for 8th sacks 2023 - presently T with 8 for 21st in sacks For a one dimensional pass rusher that sucks against the run….his resume isn’t that strong as an elite specialist. He has only finished 1 season as our are leading sacker as well.

I mean if Burns has a disappointing finish down the stretch and teams know we can’t/aren’t doing a deal….we likely won’t even get a first at that point. Scott Fitterer is the Matt Rhule of GMs. We still got a lot of stuff that stinks in the building. We weren’t that bad just because of Matt Rhule. It’s the scapegoat effect. People always are willing to believe 1 person was the whole problem initially.

my money is still on Burns walking in the end. Panthers look foolish not trading him to Rams. I think they are self aware they largely aren’t well viewed by fans, media, probably know other teams believe they have fleeced them, etc. and I think Burns keeps demanding a number they aren’t comfortable with….and to an extent I think he ensures his way out of a losing franchise by doing that. Because all he has done is lose. So the deal is pay me money to look stupid or I get my way out of here.

Sweat was just got for a 3rd. Young a 2nd. Burns at best would have gone for a singular 1st. Fitt fumbled that bag so hard.

I mean, Chinn really shouldn’t be a blue check. Not saying it’s his fault.

They should feel that way.