Basbear

Pass on that 3rd year tag. Its a tool for the.....well smart GMs to use. Think about it back-to-back tags is a bargain. I mean a few big money deals only last two as well. Just after two years Moton is closer to death's door of the NFL= 30 years old. Yea OL do/can play a little longer, still right now its looking like the smart play for the panthers is two year tag. Then they have the chance at finally agreeing to a deal or getting an 3rd comp.

"*Shoot for*" much like old OL coaches want the line to block for 8 seconds. They want the time as low as possible in making a pass. In a way you could remove all OL except for the C and still get a pass off so long as the DTs are DTs and not ADonald. That makes the having a elite DL less useful, in the sense they no longer impact the game as much. Plus you dont need an elite cast of OL. I use to think that DL was the only way, that changes when QBs gets the ball nano fast. I was also a zone-CB believer too. Man-to-Man forces the Offenses to change the quick release play calls, thus helping bring value back to DL. If you dont change the play call, the WR must win or the CB is housing the ball. Honestly its a marriage deal between DL and DBs, they need one another.

That maybe dated thinking, for years now most Offenses have been getting the ball out faster. Many teams shoot for less than 2.0 seconds form snap to pass. Of course QB has to catch the snap-start throwing motion-release. I member a old sport science vid on this topic. Just a adjustment has been made to counter elite DLmen, you dont even have to block them, just impede their move path to the QB. Found it Ive said a few times before this, if YGM was in this year's draft, he would have been an 1st rounder, Im about 99% sure. He may have been the first DL picked as well, just a super poor year for DL. Its still early but Herniay's last draft is feeling like Gman's last draft. It maybe the best one in Herniay's career even with most of the 4-7 guys getting cut this year. YGM can play some DT as well, hes one of the true wild cards on the team. If the switch gets flipped...... panthers will give good teams big problems with Burns, Brown, and YGM all needing doubles/attention. Right now I feel YGM will be a better Mike Rucker. YGM is a real 6'5, around 270 with good strength. Hes basically one of the top projects for strength coach Jeremy Scott. If he reports at a focused 285 LBs and added some pass rush moves, watch-out now....

I heard that long ago, I thought for sure the huddle had a small thread on the report. I could not find the thread cause search function is _________ and I looked around twitter some, no luck either. I swear Joe Person or Brent Jensen or a lesser known reported this, I feel it was about two years ago. The wording was like " Moton's team is asking for LT money and the panthers are reluctant to do so". Then in the discussion someone talked about Herniay never paying RT and listed a few example like keeping Bell for 5 years and Remmers for a few as well, at low salary.

This is how bad I am, days after the draft I wanted to talk who would be on the 16 man practice squad....LOL. I posted threads like this in past and they got buried fast cause no body replies. Its a hard-core die hard type of fan thing. Honestly thats why I love the board this time of year, in my view the real fans are still posting here during this dead time.....I post much less during the in-season games.

DCs have moved around pass rushers much more in recent years. They are attacking weakness, that has not charge. If the RT has trouble with speed rushers, put Burns there after a different DE worn him down. Most QBs are right handed, that means the blind-side is still protected by LT. League's cap has nearly increase the cap 2x since 2007, teams are taking the time to pay RT while dropping that added space on OGs. I try to stay with the times and even try to predict the future. I do feel the league is wrong about how they value C and TE, Ive said that for years. Again the puzzle is 53 spots and 200 million to give. SOME positions are going to get shorted compared to others. League and me agreed that RT is not as valued as LT and most OGs. I even go to say C has more value. All the first comments about DC moving pass rushers more, the C has to make adjusts in seconds.... I give the credit to my Favoite panther OC Dan Henning for stating many years ago "C is the most important/valued OL spot, NOT LT" I still place LT above, but hes somewhat right. We do not have all the facts about Moton and him not playing LT. I could only guess, still that is where you get 20+. Id be fine with that even if he was a very good LT, but hes not and we do not know why.

Its an different way to label the money/cap. 47 is a little more than I thought if those are factored in and not twice like I was trying to correct them. Shaq I didnt want to sign, but they did after Luke told them "Im retiring"...I still like Shaq just not at the contract/price hes getting. Im sure cutting him will be talked about in the off-season.....just at some point the dead money has to stop(the huge type). Yea WR is in much better hands than OL, that hurts my preferring Moore >> Moton. I just dont want to lose Moore, Burns or choosen-one Darnold by giving 20+ for Moton to play RT. No question OL needs more talent and losing Moton does not help. Just it crosses the line wanting 20+ million, tough choice to make. You do value RT much higher than I do. My placement in the 13th area form 22 ranked positions.. Just only OL its about 4th out of 5 with LT and C being very far ahead. OL is mess for 2022 if the rookies dont become at least decent. Honestly I super worried about C, cause no faith in Elf at all. While not the most valued, C is the most important.

Post in reply to hubby= Look at this my friend. Before, know this Lane Johnson was going to play LT at some point. My eyes maybe off....but I see LOTS more OGs in the top 20 than RTs.....plus Ram is new. So quick recap- Lane signed with intentions of playing LT and Ram just signed days ago....... Only two RTs by name in the top 20 and I just gave reasons for each. Again Im the crazy one for not wanting to over-pay a very good RT. Panthers over paided at RB and LB......RT is about the same value too, might as well go full tard. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/offensive-line/limit-100/ This backs up what Ive been stating, league doesnt value RT as LT. Only if you are in the NFC west or some other insane division where its loaded at LDE. That was the reason why the raiders signed Trent Brown to a insane contract to play RT. It didnt work out but I understood why playing against Millers, Bosa, hali etc.

Look at this my friend. Before, know this Lane Johnson was going to play LT at some point. My eyes maybe off....but I see LOTS more OGs in the top 20 than RTs.....plus Ram is new. So quick recap- Lane signed with intentions of playing LT and Ram just signed days ago....... Only two RTs by name in the top 20 and I just gave reasons for each. Again Im the crazy one for not wanting to over-pay a very good RT. Panthers over paided at RB and LB......RT is about the same value too, might as well go full tard. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/offensive-line/limit-100/

What if Moton would only sign for 25 million per with 60% guaranteed? Say another team will give that to him if panthers dont as well. You still agree? Just lines are a thing and Moton/agent/crew wanting top 5 OL to play a lesser valued spot, thats too much for my taste. At what point you is yours? Roster turn-over is around 40% each year, I think the panthers drafted some Moton insurance with brady christensen.... I mean say christ is a ok RT, just average, is Moton worth 18x the cost? This gos back to the Norman deal. I just wanted to tag Norman and that be it, no long term deal for a older zone CB cause they have similar value to RT....... In steps Bradberry whom played decent for a rookie, so was Norman 15x the player Bradberry was? In my book nope, BIG nope. Panthers/gman goal-line fumbled this whole deal tho, still some comparisons can be made to Motons current deal. I was right there too......

Very high, RT maybe the least out of the 5. Yes I am hung up on not paying a very good player elite/top 5 money form another spot, yes......people acting like thats crazy, LOLolol! I answered most in my other reply. Buy a projector and hook up voice chat while youre dusting and washing dishes! I got work/chores to do as well before the weekend as well, lucky most are all done!

It does feel like I am undervaluing the RT, but you have to make hard choices since its impossible to pay all 25 spots top money. OL is important, very much. I have LT and C as wayyyy more valuable and depending on the system RG or LG maybe more as well. In recent years I have greatly changed my OG value, as has the NFL given the contracts as well. Past years I wouldnt have touched a OG before the mid-3rd at best, NFL changed and I did too. RT has sorta replaced OG in "value" terms for me. The OL needs to be rebuilt with or without Moton. IF Moton is getting 20+ mill per year for RT, that will make harder on filling other spots including the other 4 OLmen. 3 people on my side, no big deal. Popular opinions well....you know.(I wonder whats the most popular song is currently?) Lets just say at least its not chuck agreeing with me and MHS is. I know this is unpopular, very unpopular line of thinking with a very good player such as Moton. But that ends when your talking top 5 OL money for a non-elite Moton playing a lesser valued spot.

I thought the charge should be listed under "dead cap" since both are free agents and not on the roster. They could re-sign but the number would be different. Mis-understanding unless the numbers add up correctly on the left. Youre hung up on those numbers given to panther FAs, rough estimate after great years for all with the given super increase in cap via TV money. Even if theres 200 million in cap space, I totally disagree with paying a very good RT top 5 LT money, NO WAY! You and most others feel different, and you gave a very good effort...a real Moton performance!! But at last my mind hasnt changed, too set in my beliefs. They have served me very well and been proven over history. Right about Moore and his weak TDs, no defensive except blaming others(QBs, OCs). Just to add TDs and WRs are a.....how do I say....they dont go hand in hand. Juilo Jones(as others) have had super low TDs for a few years in elite careers. That field is smaller closer to goal-line less room to work for type of WR that Moore is. For sure tho, TDs number are weak, but hes the only WR to reach 1,200 scrimmage yards in each of the last 2 seasons. Thats very impressive feat, given all the other elite WRs. Shame its harder to compare to RT, since they dont have "stats". You maybe right about me over-valuing the WR, there are more in draft the last couple years. League has a good, not perfect method to show value, they pay WR nearly 2x the average of RTs it feels like. Wraping this up, where do you have RT on your value chart for the 22 positions? Say all are good players, all equal level of talent/age etc. Rough number is fine, theres too many factors, try not to over think it.

Yea thats the good part in that the first couple years there beneficial cap space, agreed. Then you start paying 20+ million or cut him and take 20+ million in dead space. Very simple- I do agree with paying a very good player at a lesser than average important position top 5 LT money.

One of my favorite topics, great thread, glad to see others enjoying it as welll.

I seen day 1 of OTAs, Urban ran the oklahoma drill......I thought it was a joke cause no contact for OTAs and that drill is 500% contact. I thought someone was pulling my leg..

Will you go on record and 115% agree with giving Taylor Moton 20+ million per aka overall top 5 OL money?

I did too, but days before the draft Sweat was getting the red flags treatment left and right. Member the one former coach said " You can not yell at him, he will shut down. Hes got thin-skin " Burns was the more cleaner player and just slighter less of RAS number. I still want to see Burns grow more, like rush stopping and not coming off the field etc. Needs to remain a panther and we need to start that process right now.

The paradis and reddick have 4 more years of signing bonus spread. Its 4 x 1,800,000 for paradis and 4 x 1,002,000. At seasons end all those void, thus hits ALL in 2022. Please click the names- Paradis and and Reddick and see for yourself. It takes away 13 in space for the 2022, no idea why sportac doesnt factor that in their future numbers. It is not just 1,800,000 and 1,002,000. You are smart enough to understand, sorry i can not explain it better. @Toomers can you please better word what Im trying tell stbugs? Again those salaries are rough and no chance everyone gets paid by the panthers. Plus they are factoring in new TV money and each having their best season. Honestly at first loved the reddick signing then I pull a 700 IQ move and watched his highlights form past season- About 80% of his stats came against no-names/backups/RB/TE and QB held the ball too long and ran into reddick. Again, its you can not pay everyone. Count me out of wanting to play Moton top 5 overall OL money. I want you to state you 113% agree with 20+ million per for moton. Not willing, just showing how many good FAs panthers have and number wise. About the only players Im willing to pay are 20+ for Burns and DJ Moore. If Darnold is the choosen one, pay him as well....if its 40 or close to, so be it. I just refuse paying top 5 overall OL money to Taylor Moton. Love him and hes been rock solid, but not paying 1st team all-pro money to a very good player. PERIOD. Tag him for another "bargain" year and figure it out again in 2022. Think about it st, the tag is a bargain this year and even with a 20% increase next year its still a bargain. Contracts for certain spots have gone insane, RT is one of them. Samuel got much more in the worst recent FA market. My deal was a bargain before the start of the season. I maybe mis-judging Moton as a player, hes gotten zero awards...yes pro-bowl are trash, still none, no 1st team all-pro etc. Im not going to agree to pay a very good player great top 5 OL money. OL needs rebuilding with or without Moton. He would help, but not while getting top 5 LT money. Just NO. Ive been right about CMC, Shaq, Teddy vs Winston, Samuel.....Im right about not wanting to spend 20+ million on a very good RT.

All true, before the season I thought panthers D would challenge some all-time records.....the worst ones not the good. So my expectations were 30s in near everything across the board. I was shocked at the play....NOT during the time where for like 3 games the D could not have a 3rd down stop(jesus that was bad). Thing is panthers knew this with showing the draft hand, record 1-7 defensive picks. Like you posted plenty of room to get better and instead of AARP the team is more fortnite... Heres a small run down of what the panthers lost- Luke 1B LB in the game HOF stud, Bradberry held most elite WRs in check, Reid a 100 tackle safety, Addinson gets 9 sacks per year for years, Irvin solid vet the Moton of DEs, Mccoy elite first step, Butler late 1st huge body figuring out NFL, and lastly Love, Horton, anc cockrell all decent depth options. Thats like 70% of the snaps and 65% of the stats GONE......Thats impossible to fix in one year. Plus Phil Snow never called one NFL play in like 65 years of his life. I thought this group is going to get poo stamped each week. I mean Djack was by far the best option at CBand wavier claim off a team with terrible CBs was the other starter. Backups are late round rookies, all teams should have threw non-stop it feels. They over-came allllllllllllllllllllll that plus the convid BS and were not the worst in NFL history. I choose not to judge this past year, but major props to Phil Snow and the young defense. I believe they should be mid-pack this year(firm number would be 18th) with age of the D, they can grow together and maybe reaally be scary for other NFL teams come 2022. My choice football "drug" is DL play and panthers in 25 years give me plenty........recently the supply has been very light...but I like the were they are headed.

It was almost like Ron Rivera told the players to play that way- " Hey guys Im done here, best thing for you to do is pad your stats so you look better during free agency" I forgot who asked, but some reporter did and rivera was like" Doing the best we can, the team cares, they are doing their best". Rivera never had that problem before, but the total team quit/checkout and it was one of the worst panthers teams in our history. Theres lots I can take, one I can NOT is RB getting first down every two carries.

I gave Herniay the gold star for signing Mccoy to a cheap deal and thought this team should go 12-4.......i just didnt buy Cam shoulder is done talk, I thought just a fluke/unlucky deal. It was awful to watch that team unfold into bunch of weak only caring about my stats DL. They only cared about 2020 free agency. So what a RB is getting 7 yards per attempt, "But look at my sacks doe, str8-fire son!!". SOFTNESS DL IN NFL HISTORY, compete joke!!

God dam, someone on the huddle is using their brain!! I like Moton, big time. Just he is NOT good enough to take cap space away form WR, QB, DE, or CB. Its a hard hard choice- hes hard working, no issues off-field, an complete pro with solid production. If he was had a couple years of 1st/2nd team all-pro years, give the man his money.....Dam the cap space...... hes not that guy tho. Incoming contract due to Sam Darnold(I hope), DJ, Moore, Djack, Reddick, ANderson, and Burns....even a couple of them the team will not be able to pay. Hard choices, Moton just priced himself out of the panthers budget and is about to be become a FA is at the best time in NFL history. It happens, I hope the team is using their brains like MHS is...