ForJimmy

Yes everyone has acknowledged he was very bad lol. If you want to take the “kidding” part of my post and run with it, that just shows where you are at right now. I even labeled it as “kidding” so you wouldn’t take it literally…

The teams this 2nd year player (can’t really blame the years before he was drafted on him) was playing were going 100% as most do most weeks in the NFL. The whole argument is about his play during that period and how well was he actually playing. I’m with you on the winning though. Just start winning and fans will get excited. Start getting in the playoffs and winning and we won’t care how his PFF or box score stats look. 200 yards a game to 400 yards a game, start scoring and winning playoffs games and 99% of fans will buy in.

Can't really get behind this. The NFL is too competitive of a league with jobs constantly on the line. A lot of the teams we played that 2nd half were play off teams and playing for seeding as well. I can meet you in the middle and say he needs to show consistency over the entire season to be a legit franchise QB. Same offense, same OL, and most of the same weapons should be in his favor this year. Also next year's QB class looks strong, so the pressure should be on.

Sure it was a cherry pick. Some people call it a trend since it was happening during the 2nd half and he is a relatively young QB in a new offense. You could say he is "trending" towards top 10 play in these particular categories (ones that were once, and still by some, considered weaknesses). I like that it was a majority of the season and there is a clear indicator of before and after his benching. His saving grace in the Philly game was both offenses played like crap and he nearly had that GWD against the champs. Honestly his worst game post benching was the Cowboys game. I can't believe no one is talking about that. Coker bailed him on a busted coverage for like 83 yards and a TD (again where the box score doesn't tell the whole story), but outside of that it was awful. I think we were a new offense that just struggled on the road more than not, even towards the end minus the Falcons game. That's why that last road win was so important IMO.

A majority of stats are going to have gray areas…. As I stated a QB throwing check downs in the 4th during a blowout gets free yardage so why should those passing yards be held in the same regard as one from a QB getting pressured on a game winning drive? All stats need context, it why these debates will go on and on forever. The most anyone is saying is that he was playing like a top 10ish QB during a certain portion of the season. I don’t think anyone is proclaiming anything too crazy

What it tries to do is grade each player individually IMO. If XL drops a nice pass it tries to make it not hurt the player than threw the pass and if on a similar pass a WR like DK makes a leaping one handed catch it tries to even out how much credit the QB gets vs the WR. Yeah it has grey areas because some of it can fall under opinion despite them using specific measurements and charts to justify their definitions. Like it or not PFF isn’t going anywhere. Analytics are trending up right now.

We do have the most Ted Lassoish coach in the league!

PFF made it up just to make Bryce look better. Crazy right? Also I can’t believe you said he played “better.” Careful and you might let a compliment slip…. (kidding)

So where are you at here? PFF is fabricating stats to make Bryce look better??

I also like to look at QBs listed in that statistical category. For example Josh Allen being at the top of "Big Time Throws" would help give some validity to it IMO.

Could be, but that would seem weird for big time "throw." I'd think that would fall under some sort of under pressure rating. Turning a sack into a incompletion could get you half a point for pressure rating for example. There are definitely some gray areas. I wonder if anyone on here has premium and if it touches on that.

Yeah I was reading an article that said they didn’t count XL’s drop against Bryce, but I took it as drops don’t hurt them but don’t help either and completions are what helps them. Yeah as @CarolinaLivinjust shared it’s probably a completion to be considered a “positive” play.

This explains some of the data https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-7-signature-stat-spotlight-big-time-throws-and-turnover-worthy-plays but yeah if you want a deeper look it looks like you need a premium account which I'm sure they charge for.

Yeah if a QB is doing check downs in the 4th quarter while getting blown out they can rack up a lot of yards in a box score stat. Reasons like this is why a lot of people and coaching staffs are looking into more analytical data like PFF. Again people hate on it when it counters their beliefs.

It's PFF and they explain it. There are definitely some gray areas as we mentioned. Some people like analytics and taking deep dives, but sometimes they can not align with narratives and that makes some people hate them (not singling you out as I've been guilty of this too). To each their own. Regardless it's pretty widely accepted throughout the league and fans.

I've never said he was a top 5 lol. Stats are stats unless it "garbage time" stats right? I remember you crying about those plenty of times. Stats without context don't tell the story. I just find it funny that he shared an article that literally said the box score didn't look great but let's take a deeper look and your response was basically bro look at the box score....

"The raw stats don't always tell the story, and that's definitely true with Bryce Young. The Carolina Panthers QB's season stat line is middling at best, and even some of his strongest days as a starter this year didn't result in dominant box scores." "Context matters, but there are also some things traditional metrics just can't capture. There's value in those, but advanced analytics seek to illustrate how good or bad a player was beyond the box score. In the case of Young, the analytics paint a beautiful picture." -That's the first two paragraphs from the article he posted. PFF isn't going to always agree with a simple box score. Box Score's don't always tell the story and PFF has a lot of gray areas. At the end of the day we have eyes and have to simply watch the games to see the improvements or not.

Doing a little digging and it looks like PFF didn't penalize him for the XL drop during that Chiefs game. I also think the moral of the story is most teams aren't chunking it 20 plus yards for completions multiple times every game. Hit a couple of those and you can be one of the top "deep" ball passers that week.

4th best passing grade when throwing over 20 yards is a big one there! That's one I was looking for earlier. 20 plus yards should be more than enough to be considered a "deep" ball. Averaging the grade over 10 games shows he is capable of incorporating that into his overall game. I would think TMac will help this as well. Definitely curious to see how it all unfolds this year.

The Chiefs game? Where are you getting 2-7? Just glancing at the box score Moore has a long catch of 21 yards, AT 36 yards, XL 34 yards, and JT 28 yards. Were these all YAC receptions? I'd be surprised to see that since we typically were terrible at YAC.... I guess another question is what is considered a "deep" pass because I think the league and some fans have different opinions on that. It's all arbitrary as people all have different opinions on the data that makes up these stats. All I know is he was able to open up the offense more by pushing the ball down the field. Something he was reluctant to do before his benching.

The biggest bonus would be Hunter getting back to form and becoming our AT replacement for next year. I know it's a bit of a longshot but it will make for an interesting WR room. I can see TMac as the X, XL as the Z, Coker can fill in as depth but is best splitting some slot reps with AT and possibly Renfrow.

I just don’t think you need a “big arm” to throw deep passes. It’s very much a WR/timing stat IMO. I think there is this belief that some of these QBs are constantly throwing bombs and completing them regularly. You just need to have that capacity in your game to keep the defense honest and offense open. I think Bryce showed he can do that at the end of the year where others (including myself) doubted he could after the first couple this season. If he can keep doing that the DC/Bryce pairing could work. If not then DC finds someone who can. I honestly don’t think we are that far off in our opinions about this. You are just a lot more skeptical in him fully succeeding in DC’s traditional offense.

It’s a fan message board. Fans are going to debate players. Especially the QB. I hope no one is genuinely upset about any of the dialogue on here.

I understand people have a hard time changing their original opinions. I’m also not saying Young is one of the best deep ball throwers. I’m saying a lot of fans thought he wasn’t capable of throwing deep passes in the NFL, that has been proven wrong. He is clearly capable of incorporating that in his game as show by the last 6-7 games and keep in mind he was using old AT as his primary deep threat in that time. I think too many fans think you need a cannon to have a good deep pass game (you don’t as it’s primarily timing and WR skillset). This is why Tua was suddenly decent at deep passes under McDaniel with Hill and Waddle catching passes. You still have fans trying to argue the same argument from Bryce’s rookie year where he had no deep passing in his game which has been proven otherwise.

2 of the 3 have been already answered. It’s for the season, and the definition has been shared by several people now. The only one that hasn’t been answered clearly is “are they completions?” which I would assume they are unless they are using some other statistic to define it as a “catchable pass.”