SCO96

I think I'm starting to get your proposal. Year ONE: 20 million (guarantee) Year TWO: 20 million (guarantee) Year Three: 20 million ($5 guaranteed, 15 million )-----$60 mil received in total...guarantee met. Year Four: 20 million (non guaranteed) Year 5: 20 million (non guaranteed) If the above player was jettisoned after year 3 would any of the remaining salary be considered dead cap space? Or, would the team be able to walk away with no cap implications since the last 40 million wasn't guaranteed?. You didn't mention anything about a signing bonus. I know that is received upfront an prorated over the life of the deal. Years ago I thought the signing bonus and guaranteed money were the same thing. After seeing the how things contracts are structured on SPOTRAC a couple of seasons ago I realized that they're not. Look forward to your reply.

I went to bed a little too late last night and I will admit that my reasoning is a bit amiss this morning. Can you breakdown your scenario a little bit more. I don't understand the part about the 3rd year having a $5mil guarantee. Wouldn't that be each of the first 3 years be $15 mil?

I always believed (and said on this forum) that we were looking at a 3 year rebuild when Rhule was hired. Year 2 was so bad that we're now a year behind. I think 2023 is the year we make some noise in the division and the conference. I just want to see some progression this year. A strong 2023 draft class could put us in a position to challenge for a conference title over the next 4-5 seasons.

I really wish we still had the 16 game season. I think 8-8 would insure his job for another year. Now a lot of teams going forward will be one game over .500 or one game under .500. I could except an 8-9 season if the team showed a marked improvement on offense. The 2020 (5-11) was almost identical record wise to our 2021 season (5-12) record wise. But the games were so much more entertaining in 2020. We lost 8 of our 11 games by one score or less. We had a chance to win all 8 games in the 4th quarter. I never got bored watching the game despite the losses. Last years offense (especially in the 2nd half) was arguably the worst we ever had in Carolina; and is why so many of us were ready to hop off of the Matt Rhule train. Everything about this year's team looks and feels different. If CMAC can return to form and play 12-14 games and the QB play at worst solid, then I really believe we'll be competitive in the NFC and be in wildcard contention at the end of the season.

The last two years have been quite humbling for Matt Rhule. Maybe he's starting to get a better understanding of just what it takes to be successful as a HC in the NFL. Listening to the counsel from others in the building as you pointed out is a sign that he's maturing and gaining wisdom on how to run the team. It took Tom Landry coached the Dallas Cowboys from 1960-1964 without a winning season. The Cowboys didn't achieve a .500 record until 1965) The team didn't have a winning season 1966. After that Landry wouldn't have a losing season until 1986, and the Cowboys only missed the playoffs twice from 1966-1985. We certainly don't want it to take 7 years for Rhule to post winning record, but it appears the guy is learning from his mistakes, and you really can't ask for more than that...except more wins of course

Both McAdoo and Chris Simms had Corrall as the best QB in this draft class. If you look at how they have ranked the past few classes, they have been pretty much nailed the best prospect each year. I'm looking forward to seeing what Matt Corrall can do with good coaching, a revamped O-line, a healthy CMC, and more talented to roster from top to bottom than we've had in years.

I've watched NFL games for nearly 40 years. I have no problem saying that the Jets have never interested me as a franchise. I've always been indifferent to them a league entity. You can make a strong argument that this franchise hasn't really been relevant since" before Joe Namath left the team" in 1976. If you took away that 1968 SB season, they'd be a footnote in NFL history. All that said, the front office crushed that draft. Zach Wilson had an erratic 2021 season, but anyone who knows football realizes that kids got a cannon for an arm. Selah's a good coach and seems to be putting the pieces together little by little. He and the front office "may be" on the verge of building something really special with that team.

Jon, are you insinuating that PJ Walker and Sam Darnold are not upper echelon NFL QB's?! Thou speakest Blasphemy

I think you misunderstood the intent of my post. I see it the same way you do. If Brady is left out of the equation, you'll still have 9 guys that won SB's that weren't drafted in the first round. And, as I stated you may have an equal number of non-first rounders who started a SB but lost. I'll try to find that data w/in the next 24 hours ann add it to this topic.

The scenario above is why I think it's hard for non first round picks to get a fair chance to prosper in the NFL. Let's Corrall has a (12 TD's, 17 INTS, and 3,641 YDs, 71.9 RTG) at the end of the season and the Panthers and fail to show any improvement in the win column... or heaven forbid...actually win fewer games. Most of the people on this board (for understandable reason) would probably be inclined to take one of the more highly rated QB's in the first round of the 2023 class. The new guy would come in as the clear cut favorite to be the starter by season's end. Corrall would have 3 yrs left on his deal. He'd likely viewed by the coaching staff as: 1)a backup until the contract expired, 2) trade bait, 3) roster cut if the spot was needed for another player In a couple of years there's a high probablity he'd be out of the league. The new guy could put up the exact same numbers and a large percentage of people would say "He's a rookie and needs more time to adapt to the NFL game." Or, "He needs a stronger team around him to really flourish" The above statement could very well be true. But, front office are always going to be more inclined to give the 1st rounder more opportunity/time to improve because they have more invested in him. It's obvious that NFL executives, and also fans unfortunately, look as any QB not taken in the 1st round as a 2nd or 3rd class NFL citizens. FYI: Just in case you're interested, the above stats came were from Trevor Lawrence's 2021 rookie season. He had 3 games where he threw 3 INTS (no rookie had done accomplished that infamous feat in nearly a decade. https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2022/01/06/jacksonville-jaguars-trevor-lawrence-latest-rookie-qb-three-3-interception-games/9077085002/ Still, he didn't come close to touching Peyton Manning's (a 1st round pick) record of 28 INTS in a season. If Corrall had a season like either of the above two players he'd be tarrred, feathered, and run out of town...mainly because he isn't a 1st round pick.

Since 1980 (non Brady & non 1st round QB's to win SB's) Joe Montana (3rd Round) 1981, 1984, 1988, 1989 Jeff Hostetler (3rd) 1990 Mark Rypien (6th) 1991 Brett Favre (2nd) 1996 Kurt Warner (undrafted) 1999 Brad Johnson (9th) 2001 Drew Brees (2nd) 2009 Russell Wilson (3rd) 2013 Nick Foles (3rd) 2017 QB's drafted after round 1 have started a fair number of SB's as well. I didn't have time to post that list...but maybe later.

So he's a MLB. I was wondering whether he was an ILB or OLB. Thank you for clearing that up. I'm not able to watch the draft. I just got/saw a notice on my phone and saying Panthers draft LB from Penn State via trade.

I actually wish he'd go on the first or second pick tonight so we can stop talking about him.

We've had a major hole at LT for years, so I'd probably pick a LT just to solidify the o-line going forward. That said, The draft is always a crapshoot. There's no guarantee any of the players in the top 10 are going to pan out. If the team could trade back and net 2 or 3 starters before round 4 instead of only one, then I think you make the deal. My problem with trade backs is you can miss out on who you're targeting. One team/GM can make an unexpected move by taking your guy and leave you severely disappointed. Also, we traded back a loy last year, and so far we don't have a lot to show for it. Extra picks are useless if you pick the wrong players or fail to develop them into meaningful contributers.

This is why I understand the rationale for trading down to pick up additional choices in the 2nd and/or 3rd round. Teams are going to find some really solid players in the draft after the 1st round is finished. Let's be honest, if BC or one of our other lineman had proven to be capable in 2021 and we weren't desperate for a LT for the 2022 season, how many players in this years class do you think we'd be all hyped up for? I don't see any can't miss/superstar players in this draft class based on the scouting reports and college resumes, although I know some will end up excelling if placed in the right situation.

One off season (I forget which one) Matt Rhule hung out with Jimmy Johnson down in Florida. Jimmy's philosophy (and understandable when you ponder it) is that it's good to have as many draft choices as possible on draft day. 1) All teams have draft busts. The more picks you have the more the greater the chance of finding solid players for the team. 2) It allows you to manipulate the draft board by moving up...or down...to get a player you want if he' left on the board. Everything is all good when you land studs and overlooked players after the first two rounds. I think our FO got a little too cute in round 2. We could have drafted a LT in our initial spot. Instead we opted to trade down and the T we were targeting got picked right ahead us, so we traded down again...and picked a WR that we didn't need and failed to develop. In round 3 Brady was the highest rated lineman on our board that was still available so we took him. We ended up passing on about seven guys (at C, G, or T) who would have been tremendous upgrades on our line from day one.

That wouldn’t be a bad scenario. I just don’t think Carson Strong will be on the board when we pick in the 4th round.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33815120/source-jacksonville-jaguars-franchise-tagged-lt-cam-robinson-reach-three-year-54m-extension It looks like we will likely have a shot at one of the top 3 tackles (Neal, Cross, or Ekwon) in the draft tomorrow night. The Jags just gave Cam Robinson a 3 year extension to lock down their LT spot. It’s highly unlikely they’ll be taking a LT with the first pick. All three tackles would have to go between picks 2 and 5 for us to miss out on one at the #6 spot. I don’t see that happening. Now, we just have to see if the front office is content to stay put and solidly the line, take a risk on a questionable rookie QB, or allow a team move up to get us an additional pick (or picks).

Despite the downturn in Dallas, we still only lost that game by 8 points. Sam was 26-39/301yds/2 TDs/2 INTS. It was the play after that game that became so concerning. I still think having McAdoo and Campen on the coaching staff is going to help whomever we put behind center in 2022; be it Darnold or another vet, or a rookie ( Pickett or Willis). The offense was predictable last season. Our 2nd half woes (the 3rd quarter in particular) aren't all on the QB's. I was glad to see Brady leave town. The pass blocking was atrocious. There were some games I trembled each me Sam, Cam, or PJ took a snap on passing plays. I'll be shocked if we don't substantially improve our offensive performance in 2022 with the new coaching additions.

I'm not a prophet, but based on what I've seen of the last year's QB class, I think Willis and Pickett will be just as successful (IMHO...more successful) than Wilson, Fields, or Jones. I haven't seen enough of Lance to have an opinion on him at this time.

I wouldn't necessarily make that selection, but I wouldn't be crushed if we did. If Hamilton lives up to his potential, putting him on the back end with Jeremy Chinn could result in us having the safety combo in the league for the next 3-5 years. Unfortunately, it wouldn't help us on the offensive side of the ball (by far our weakest area) so I'd have to pass.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. If you take Lawrence out of last year's class, it really wasn't all that great. Trey Lance practically red-shirted the season so he's a huge question mark and gets a pass. Wilson, Fields, and Jones (the best of the last 3 in terms of production) did nothing to make me think we crippled the franchise for the rest of the decade by passing on them. Next to QB, LT is arguably the position with the biggest "bust potential" in terms of the draft. How many times have we seen highly touted LT's quickly flame out in the NFL or get "moved to guard" because they can't hold up on the outside? But, the pundits would have you believe that 5 or 6 of the LT's in this draft will be perennial Pro Bowlers. I like the excitement of the draft as much as the next guy, but yeah, there is too much hype surrounding it these days. I wish the league hadn't moved it further back in April.

If Fitterer can trade back, pick up extra choices and stay in the top 15 I think most of us would be inclined (or at least understand the rationale )to make the deal. I just don't think the fans and pundits (like Josh Norris) can go into this draft assuming someone is going to want trade up to #6 knowing how much they may have to give up in return. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. If no trade partner emerges you have to be ready to take a LT or QB once you're on the clock. Since teams know we don't pick again until day 3, I could see some front offices refusing to make deals with us just to keep us in our current situation.

I heard a segment on Cowherd's show where he discussed this. I don't remember him saying that he'd draft a QB "every year". But I seem to recall him saying that he'd be drafting a QB in the later rounds at least every couple of years for the reason you stated. There's a chance that some talented guy is being overlooked. Even if he never becomes an entrenched starter, he may be a guy that can become a great back-up or a someone who can be developed and be used for trade bait down the road.