Seltzer

Exactly. The last 5 seasons have been brutal. Look, I love CMC and DJ, but we weren't tearing up the league offensively with them. Doesn't mean they're not great players, but we aren't going to win (or even make) a SB without improving at QB. Cam lost Kelvin Benjamin (who was in the best shape of his life) before the 2015 season, and he willed us to the SB with Ted Ginn and Philly Brown. Mahomes lost Tyreek and won a SB. I'd rather swing and miss on a franchise QB right now than continue to muddle along. Does anyone besides Saints homers believe they can win anything significant over the next 5 years with a jacked-up cap and paying Derek Carr $35M a year? B/c I sure don't. Saints fans are going to look back in 5 years and realize just how colossal a waste it was, just like we need to be clear-eyed about how bad the past 5 seasons have been here. Saints fans are deluded into thinking they can keep the party going post-Brees for some unknown reason. Panthers fans should be more sober after the past 5 years of failure. Whether or not this works, at least it is a well thought out plan and strategy. We never once had that with Rhule. We had dumbass slogans and a mythical 7-year Jay-Z plan or something. We've hired some of the best offensive minds in the league, along with a top 10 offensive line. If they can't figure out a way to make it work, we have bigger issues than trading away a WR and some draft picks.

Y'all need to chill on the Suleiman slander!!! Edgar Salmingo, Jr. @PanthersAnalyst · 9m According to Over the Cap, the #Panthers have over $156M in cap space and no dead money in 2024. Sheeeeesh

We were a ridiculous DJ penalty and braindead plays from Keith Taylor and CJ Henderson from being 6-0 in the division with everything that went wrong last year. People need to chill. Everybody thought losing CMC would doom our running game. It didn't. Yes, our receiving corp is not looking good so far. But, it's early. This is still a great, great day to be a Panthers fan

And look at the free agent WR's for 2024... absolutely loaded. We finally have a clear vision and strategy for getting there. Maybe it doesn't work out, but damn if it's no so, so much better than the Rhule nonsense

And we have a chance to get our franchise QB and have a clean cap (with an incredible amount of space of the next few years) by doing this. Would you rather be the Saints running it back with their ancient squad and Derek Carr, knowing your cap will be 25+% dead cap for at least the next 3-4 years? Every team has dead cap. The situation going into 2023 isn't great (although that number & % isn't that bad per league average), but long-term, this is the best situation we have been in a long, long time.

We started Cam off with an average Oline and good playmakers that quickly devolved into an awful Oline and subpar skill players. Rather start Stroud/Young off with an excellent Oline and subpar playmakers and build from there than how we handled Cam

Shaq balled last year. Hopefully he is reasonable about a pay cut and stays.

Absolutely nothing, just like he has shown during his entire career. Carr is a lot closer to Sam Darnold than a guy that can win a SB. And Matt Corral can hopefully develop into a decent backup. With 17 games, you need a backup that can win a game or two

It feels so good to have professionals running this team. Again, the DJ move hurts this year, but the long-term vision from this is amazing. Imagine having your franchise QB and a lot of money to spend... this is going to be our future Not constant restructures just to sign retreads

You're right. Now try explaining that to the people on this board who can't understand why the Panthers weren't willing to part with Burns, who plays a position that is much, much harder to hit on than receiver.

Exactly. Losing DJ certainly does hurt going into next year, but this is a massive, massive long-term W. The draft compensation outside of DJ was honestly minimal The past 5 years have been brutal for Panthers Nation. We actually have a plan and vision going forward. We never, ever had than under Rhule. It was done half-assed the whole way. This is a true new beginning.

You have to replace a top 10 edge rusher in this scenario. If you think finding a good WR is hard, edge rusher is 5x harder. Only thing harder than finding an elite edge rusher is finding a franchise QB. The cupboard is the complete opposite of bare over the next few years when you have a QB on a rookie contract and more than enough cap to fill holes in FA

I really think if you draft a letter to Tepper given all your past successes according to yourself, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't fire both Scott Fitterer and Dan Morgan to bring you in to turn things around

This is so much better than the lunacy brewing down in New Orleans, where they are further screwing themselves long-term to run it back with a bunch of old and injured players and Derek Carr, with the upside of maybe winning a down division. This is a move to set this franchise up for the next decade. If it doesn't work, of course it will be a setback but the upside with this approach is so, so much better. Losing DJ hurts next year, but having a QB on a rookie deal makes all the other draft capital meaningless b/c the team will have a lot of cap space for the next 4+ years. This is about potentially setting the team up to being a SB contender, not screwing around with the constant retreads anymore.

Given all that, I really am surprised teams haven't reached out to you for your services

People need to be realistic about what a franchise QB is worth. Losing DJ hurts us, especially next year no doubt, but the idea we got fleeced in this deal is nonsense. We got a top 5-10 offensive line now and will hopefully have a franchise QB on a rookie contract. Things are looking so much better than they have for the past 5 years. Of course there is risk in everything, but anyone not excited about this (even if you are wary about the compensation) is crazy. I'm tired of not being a serious football organization. We got an all-star offensive coaching staff, and we're giving them their pick of the litter. It's on them now.

I feel confident you are smarter than Scott Fitterer, Frank Reich, Josh McCowen, Thomas Brown, Duce Staley, Parks Frazier, etc. who all signed off on this deal... /s Seriously, Tepper hired an all-star cast of offensive coaches. If they don't have a plan for moving forward with this move, we got much better issues than just this trade. There is absolutely nothing crippling about this. Yes, moving DJ doesn't help our WR corp next year, but we have plenty of money to spend in FA plus the potential to finally draft a franchise QB again. Crippling is what this fanbase has had to endure the past 5 seasons. We are finally a serious football organization again. I don't know what's not to like about that

Look, I like DJ, but people acting like we just traded prime Smitty need a reality check. Yes, there is a lot of risk in this trade, but a franchise QB is worth 5 DJ Moore's in the modern NFL. Time will tell how this plays out, but this was not unreasonable trade compensation by any imaginable stretch

Absolutely not. Finding a replacement for Moore is light years easier than finding a top 10 edge rusher. Losing DJ hurts, but other than that, the compensation for this trade was nothing

The cap figure is a killer, but Shaq balled out last year. Our LB corp outside him and Luvu is atrocious. I hope they work out a way to keep him (provided the cap hit is lessened). If they can't though, there are going to be a lot of available LBers on the market

My best analysis of this so far would be: 1) To the collusion point- I do think the overwhelming majority of owners do not want to see guaranteed contracts become the norm. After the Watson deal, they want to put that genie back in the bottle. I feel certain owners have made that abundantly clear behind the scenes. 2) It seems somewhat certain that Baltimore has privately informed teams that they are not going to lose Jackson (i.e. they will match anything reasonable). 3) Given the first two points above, what is in it for any team to become involved in negotiations with Jackson? The Ravens are not going to let him go, any proposal by another team is mostly just a waste of time (i.e. the Panthers with Watson & Stafford), and it's only going to hurt the league negotiations with other QB's in the future if teams throw out big-money deals to Lamar. A team could just say eff it and throw out a deal the Ravens won't match, but they will face the ire of all the other owners along with the very real concern about Jackson's injury history. Add it all up, and this is where we are at.

Yep. That is a legit concern too, especially since the negotiations with Watson last year affected other aspects of our free agent signings.

I don't know about NFC favorites, but we would definitely be the overwhelming favorites for the NFC South, and top 3-5 in the NFC. The issue comes down in my mind to the risk associated with the contract demands and injury history.

Exactly. The draft capital is absolutely nothing for a player of Lamar's caliber. The contract demands, especially the guaranteed part, should give anyone pause. That being said, I'm still of the opinion that trading for Lamar is no more risky than drafting Young, Stroud, or Richardson. I trust the current coaching staff to make the right call- I'm glad I don't have to make it. And I will say this, after screwing around with Deshaun Watson and not resigning Hasson Reddick or Stephon Gilmore, they need to make a decision in whatever direction so that FA is not impacted by this.

Don't know if it will happen. But if with we willing to go all-in on Air Thruster, this is no logical reason we don't vet this out. I wasn't a believer in Lamar for several years. But he earned his MVP, and is a much better passer than a lot of people want to give him credit for. This offensive line with Lamar would strike fear in the hearts of defensive coordinators like we haven't seen since in over 5 seasons when Cam was still in his prime