Seltzer

I've been here since the Carolina Growl days, and while some of the posters here (who are typically the most hardcore fans) might not ever be able to get Sean Payton's past, 95+% of the fanbase will forgive all if he wins the division next year. Tepper knows this. You would have to remind most casual fans of what Bounty Gate even was. Most casual fans only know the Saints owned us for the majority of the 15 years Payton was the Saints coach. And for my boys who have just started watching the Panthers over the past 5 years (all losing), they could care less and just want to see the Panthers win. Most fans do. I'm all for standing on principle, but it doesn't matter to Tepper, and it won't matter to the overwhelming majority of fans. Losing a few hardcore fans while bringing back thousands of casual fans is a trade-off an owner would accept every day. Sean Payton will bring excitement, national relevance, national games, and free agent interest. That matters a whole lot to an owner, especially one like Tepper. And he will also bring his a-hole persona, which very well might not work with Tepper long-term. But that's for another day... I had 15 years to develop a visceral hatred for the guy, but I will freely admit after spending 5+ years in the NFL wilderness as a franchise, I am open to anyone who can be a winner. I have been pro-Wilks, but my opinion nor anyone else's here matters to Tepper. And while I have probably hated Sean Payton worse than anyone in the NFL over the past 15 years, he can coach and he would instantly make us the favorites in the NFC South next year.

You can never have enough pass rushers, but I think the biggest issue is that YGM & Haynes are decent rotational guys but not at a starter level. I think we would be fine at edge rusher (injuries notwithstanding) if we can sign or draft a starting level edge rusher to pair with Burns.

Of all the unexpected things that happened this year, Chuba establishing himself as a legit RB2 was one I didn't see coming. Obviously, the much-improved offensive line played a part, but Chuba broke a lot of tackles this season he didn't in past seasons. I am guilty of a lot of Chuba slander, but he really did establish he can play in this league and was more than Mrs. Rhule's favorite. All 3 primary RBs (after the CMC trade) played well. I could still see us taking a RB in one of the later rounds, but it is nowhere as big of a need as I thought it would be once we traded CMC. And anything over a 60 PFF grade is not bad, considering 50 is average. The biggest takeaway from the offensive side (outside of QB), is the clear need to upgrade at TE, especially in terms of pass catching. Both Ian Thomas and Tommy Tremble are pretty good at run blocking, and they will both be on the team next year, but neither offer much at all in the passing game. And Stephen Sullivan is never going to be that guy IMO

It does if the sun is going to explode in a billion years too I guess... it makes every season a losing season if you think about it from that perspective as well. As well as anything else. You can follow that rabbit hole all the way down. If you have convinced yourself every ending is going to be miserable you won't be disappointed, either watching the Panthers or in life. But to me personally, this seems like an awfully depressing way to live. But you do you

We were in the playoff race until last week and this week didn't affect draft positioning. So that makes no sense IMO. We played to win until last week when we had a chance at the playoffs and we won today but it didn't affect where we draft. I don't understand how anyone with a brain would have done anything differently. Was Wilks supposed to try lose every game the minute he took over? Other than just wanting to complain, I don't understand the first thing about this thread

even better. I read we dropped one spit but the point remains

We dropped 1 effing spot. Yall can talk about everyone else having a loser mindset but many of the posters here are the epitome of a losing mindset. Absolutely nothing tragic happened today. We are picking 9th. Mahomes went 10th. And the examples go on and on and on... This literally is the epitome of pathetic

It has gotten so much worse in the past 5 years or so. I think it is a combination of a society that expects instant gratification, think playing fantasy football makes them capable of being a coach/GM, and the underlying mental illness issues that have been plaguing the country brought on and worsened by Covid. This toxic mix compels some to try to drag others into the mental illness they are obviously suffering from. I truly don't understand why they stick around if they are so bothered by everything. I once thought a lot of the straight up sh*tposting was trolling, but the overwhelming prevalence and the absolute need to be heard over social media along with the need to try to drag others into their misery is something new. Mental health is this country is a massive issue, and a lot of these types of posts are both pathetic and in a sad way, a cry for help. Seriously, if a game is causing you the kind of mental anguish to post something like this, you need professional help, and I genuinely hope you seek it out. You sound suicidal over what is ultimately a game. Take a day, reread this, and really think about why you felt the need to broadcast this. Because I personally think it's way more about mental health and an inability to cope than it is about the Panthers losing a football game b/c full stop this sounds unhinged.

Come on. I liked Matt Moore and he was a solid backup, but Sam has played better over the past month than Matt Moore ever did in his entire career. Full stop. And Sam's ceiling is light years higher. Anyone coronating Sam as the 2023 starter is stupid, but I also think it's crazy to act like we're automatically going to find anyone off the street or in the draft that is guaranteed to come in and be better than the guy that has played really good ball here over the past month. Anyone who think Sam is the reason we lost needs to have their head examined. If CJ & Keith Taylor don't embarrass themselves out there today, the narrative is how Sam Darnold outdueled Tom Brady on the road in a quasi- playoff game. And look around the league. 2 Things: 1) There are way too many teams needing starting level QB's and not near enough QB's capable of being the long-term answer. 2) With a 17th game (and potentially an 18th), having a good backup is paramount b/c they are going to play in meaningful games. There will be a market for Sam Darnold. And Baker Mayfield. And PJ Walker. Not necessarily starting, although I think Sam & Baker will probably be in the mix for some team based on the way they finished the season. PJ will almost certainly be on an NFL roster next year. I understand not wanting to settle for Sam Darnold. I truly do, and I think the Panthers feel the same way. But I also think they understand that Sam is still only 25, showed some really good promise the last month, and could be a great bridge starter and/or backup next year. And if he could somehow play an entire season like he has for the past month, he could legitimately lead this team (or another team) to the playoffs.

I think Reddick was our best defensive player last year. I think the main reason we didn't re-sign him was all the BS going after QB's and trying to save money for that ultimately futile endeavor. Anyway, Reddick has been good this year, but I think Burns has honestly been better, at least this year. Reddick has double digit sacks, but he's on a much better line overall and not getting double teamed like Burns. Regardless, Edge Rusher is IMO the most important need on this team, right up there with QB. Any maybe moreso given that Darnold has played like a competent starter over the past month. YGM has been a little better lately (he did have a nice ST block on that FG and some pressures today), but both him and Haynes are really rotational players. We need another guy who can consistently get pressure, and we don't have it. The only thing I will say, having Reddick and Burns on the field last year gave us 2 very capable pass rushers, but it left us very vulnerable against the run since both guys are somewhat undersized in terms of being a run stopper.

I saw a stat that showed since Sam became the starter, we had the biggest increase in offensive efficiency in the league. Obviously this is on the Oline also, but Sam has been playing the best ball of his career. McAdoo IMHO has called some good games too since Sam has taken over. The flip side is that the defensive efficiency plummeted by the 2nd highest amount. Al Holcomb may be Wilks' friend, and I know Luke & TD are fans from way back, but he hasn't done a good job, especially over the past month. Absolutely inexcusable to have CJ & Taylor man-to-man on Evans after being burned multiple times. Honestly, almost all the big changes this year have been to the offensive side of the ball, and they got better while the defense got worse. If Wilks is retained, I'm certainly ok with dumping McAdoo, but Holcomb definitely deserves to see the door, too. I'd be cool with Wilks if he can convince Frank Reich to come here and find a good DC. I think Wilks is a good HC in terms of leading the team and being respected, but he needs to be lining up top-notch coordinators if he wants the job here or elsewhere.

Feel the exact same way except I think another edge rusher is the biggest need

This 100%. There will be teams that do worse than 2022 Darnold next year. The need for starter level QBs far exceeds the number available. It's easy to say we need to upgrade Darnold. It's not as easy to make it happen. There is absolutely no guarantee even a highly drafted rookie QB will outplay Darnold (especially next year), or that we would be able to land a FA QB we wanted (hasn't happened the last 3 offseasons). No one in their right mind wants to coronate Darnold as the starter next season. But counting on Corral and/or discounting Darnold would be foolish too. We did a lot worse at QB, especially with Baker, before Sam started even this year.

Both polar extremes of this are dumb IMO. Nothing about Darnold's overall body of work should guarantee him anything next year. That being said, Darnold has been playing the best ball of his career over the past month and has been top 10 or higher on almost all advanced metrics. He's only 25. To just let him walk without seeing if he can build off of that next year is folly too IMO. Darnold will be on a roster next year. If we are going to draft a rookie, then why not have him on our roster to be the bridge guy (or longer). I would hope Darnold would like some stability after his turbulent NFL career so far and would take a high-end backup type deal. I don't see the logic in signing a high profile veteran and then taking a QB high in the draft after just using a 3rd on Corral along with all the other draft capital we've given up for QBs. Otherwise, we need to cut bait and try to sign a veteran like Carr that will cost more. Then there's no need for Darnold and we keep and develop Corral.

DE, QB, CB are our biggest needs IMO DE is by far the biggest need. YGM & Haynes are decent #3/4 DEs, but we desperately need another edge rusher besides Burns that can consistently get pressure

Sam has been overall the best player on offense since he started. He hasn't been perfect, but he has played well enough for us to win. In no world should he be the unquestioned starter next year, but I think it would be equally stupid not to resign him to compete. Throw in all the other qualifiers, but he is only 25. In almost any other game this season (where we have CBs who just decided to not play and coaching that didn't adjust) we would have won. Pass rusher is by far our biggest need IMO. YGM played better down the stretch, but he has done nothing to warrant starting. Nothing is guaranteed in the future, but I personally think this team is on the best trajectory it has been in years

I still think 100% we need to bring a QB in the mix, but Sam has looked like a good starter behind this line. It's foolish to go it alone with him, but I think it would also be foolish not to bring him back if we can reasonably. Another pass rusher is by far priority #1 IMO in terms of draft needs. I agree with you about QB, CB, & WR as well. Resigning Bozeman is priority #1 for FA. Would like Foreman if he comes back reasonably. Future definitely looks so much brighter than it did last year at this time.

I know some teams have made efforts in the past to boot ticket holders who constantly sell their tickets, but I don't know from a legal standpoint if there is any recourse with the PSL owner agreement. And yeah, supply has definitely outpaced demand the last few years. The Panthers are ranked high in attendance (meaning tickets sold), but there are plenty of open seats in the stadium. Back to your original point about scalpers, yeah they are going to sell exclusively to the highest bidder, which will undoubtedly be idiot Cowboy fans if we host them on Wildcard weekend. I feel like the vast majority of the lower bowl on the visitor side must be scalpers at this point, b/c even compared to 5 years ago there are consistently a lot of opposing fans on that side, which certainly validates that scalpers own most of those tickets at this point and just auction them off.

Good post OP. Really enjoyed it

It really depends on how many PSL owners want profit over atmosphere. Cowboys fans (especially those living locally) would probably spend their January mortgage payment to see "The Boys." The lower the IQ and the less likely the fan to actually know where Dallas is on the map, the more "hardcore" they are. I would be happy if there was no more than 40% Dallas fans in that scenario. Given how the last few seasons have went, I would hope it's no more than 50/50. It's absolutely disgusting, but as someone who has had PSL's for 17 seasons now, I am a realist. Way, way too many PSL owners have gotten comfortable with making money about everything else, especially over the last 4 years of irrelevancy and the fact there are always transplants here willing to pay a premium to see their hometown and/or preferred team. The capitalist in me understands this is their prerogative. The fan in me hates this with every fiber of my being. Anyway, just my take, but I think the Cowboys (which is almost assuredly the matchup) would be worst case in terms of PSL owners selling out, literally and figuratively. Regardless, I will be there if we can win the division, doing my best to represent.

I'm usually an optimist, but the only way I think we win this game is if we dominate and leave no doubt. If the score is anywhere close near the end of the game, Brady is going to get every call and every chance to win. I'm already mentally preparing myself for some bs calls to go against us. I do think we are the better team right now, but losing Jaycee is a massive, massive blow. On the whole though, I'm just happy for relevant football in January. Panthers either win by 10+ or the Bucs squeak out a win (with a heavy-handed assist from the NFL & the refs). Only 2 scenarios I can see

If we lose to this Bucs team, they are doing us a favor by keeping us out of the playoffs. Todd Bowles knows Darnold well, and he is going to do everything he can to put the game in Sam's hands. It's undoubtedly the biggest game Sam has ever played as a professional, and its the biggest game this late in the season for the Panthers in 5 years. Can't wait for Sunday

So we won't be on Sunday night. Wonder if we get flexed to 4:25 though

Josh Norman? He's played for Wilks and is available. I do know it's real slim pickings this time of year for a CB

Same and same. I hate the fact that so many fans sell their tickets, which inevitably end up going to opposing fans. But it is a valid point about sucking for 5 years straight. My financial situation is better than some fans who really have to make harder decisions and I can't fault them, especially given how bad we have been. Why not make the money to finance your tickets in the future when the team might be good again? Even yesterday, the stadium was at least half Steelers fans, possibly much more (it's depressing to even speculate). Us Panthers fans did everything we could, but there really wasn't that much to cheer for. We got dominated in the trenches. It sucks every way possible, but only winning is going to change this.