Ryan Clark has a different POV on why Cam is hated.

[goodoleboy]

18 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

 

so they told him about it, but they immediately code-switched to standard (read: white) american english. they didn't skip a beat. the instant they were asked to talk about something perceived by the dominant race/class structure as important, they had to change their dialectical mode of talking just so they wouldn't be judged as dumb or otherwise inferior to journalists who spoke "proper" english.

as a white dude i don't have to code switch. i don't have to talk about my anthropological meetings to my friends in one language and then instantly switch to a "proper" mode of speaking once someone asks me about it. obviously this isn't a humungous, earth-shattering deal, but again it's one of those things you take for granted as a white guy.

it is, in fact, white privilege.

You are jumping to a conclusion that they did it to "not appear dumb". Perhaps they simply changed dialect in order to be better understood by their audience. 

[Raskle]

8 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

i have two more books launching this year and a superproject launching probably in 2017, but i've heavily considered it. i'm not sure i could get a full book's length worth of material out of it though and i'd have to find a way to interview players to give it some real meat and substance, which would be difficult

Paging General Zod? I think he may be able to get you access for some interviews, especially for a subject such as this. I think it would be an incredible and fascinating read. Can't hurt to ask, right?

[teeray]

1 hour ago, Raskle said:

Actually, I'm a Libertarian. You really don't know me for poo, but keep trying, as I hope to change that.

 

I do recognize that racism exists, and am not naiive enough to feel differently. Up until recently, no, I had no idea thug was utilized as a racist comment, as I have always associated it with a criminal instead. I generally don't associate with people who are racists, myself, and I don't know what it's like to be the subject, but I'm sure it sucks to an extremely high degree. The point I was trying to make, is that it exists on both sides, and if folks want to change things, they have to let those ideas go. How many times were "White Americans" referenced? Or "White Media"? Or whatever... we're all Americans, we all hate the media for shitting on our Panthers up until recently. I can't stand Peter King and think he's a giant douchebag, but I don't say that white journalist, I just say that journalist. I don't comment that Stephen A Smith is a black journalist, just that he's a journalist who I enjoy watching roast Skip Bayless over and over again.

 

Take what you want from this post, I won't be able to stop you if you decide to perceive me as you do. But I do hope that you realize that I harbor no ill will towards anyone making comments in here. I understand that I don't understand what it feels like to be subjected to what an African American deals with on a daily basis. I also understand that no amount of words of mine will convince some folks that I want a change, or that by speaking these things out, I hope we all gain better understanding of the problem, and that one day, we all can work towards a fix.

 

Ok, I'm done. Sorry for the soapbox guys.

You dont say "White journalists" or "White media" because white is the dominate culture of the United States.

White is default. 

[Moorgan]

1 hour ago, goodoleboy said:

You are jumping to a conclusion that they did it to "not appear dumb". Perhaps they simply changed dialect in order to be better understood by their audience. 

Which is also an assumption on the girls parts...I assume.

But where PhillyB is wrong is that as a white dude he doesn't need to change his language. I think we all do it more than we think...and in many different ways.

A racial example from my life would be growing up on the public basketball courts. I felt like o had to assimilate somewhat in order to communicate better and be accepted. For no other reason so I would get picked (aside from my play) or so I could call next without getting beat up.

A non racial example would be, as a senior ranking soldier, how I speak to the soldiers and how I speak to leadership. To put it simply, I use more colorful language when speaking to the soldiers. F bombs don't generally go over well when speaking with generals. But a well placed f bomb can gain you credibility and emphasize a point with the junior soldiers.

Basically, we change how speak pretty often based on what we want from our audience and what we expect, right or wrong, will resonate best with that audience. Which is another assumption.

[pstall]

I grew up near a small biz hub and it had a grocery store and 3 or 4 auto shops of some type. Locally owned. 

One guy was as country as it gets and his side hobby was drag racing and the last bay in his shop was meant for that.

So as a kid i would ride my bike over and hearing him talk in the shop to his guys it was like Boomhauer.

But when someone rolled up in a super nice car or had on a suit he would change to polished business man. Everything was fully enunciated and proper diction and words i didn't think he would ever say would slide out. 

In the financial markets days we were trained to match jargon and intellect. If a person seemed high level and knew market terms then use them. If they seemed like a novice then match what they know and talk in a way they understood what you said.

Alas im sure my anecdotes are meaninglessness but moorgan reminded me of that. 

[goodoleboy]

1 minute ago, Moorgan said:

Which is also an assumption on the girls parts...I assume.

But where PhillyB is wrong is that as a white dude he doesn't need to change his language. I think we all do it more than we think...and in many different ways.

A racial example from my life would be growing up on the public basketball courts. I felt like o had to assimilate somewhat in order to communicate better and be accepted. For no other reason so I would get picked (aside from my play) or so I could call next without getting beat up.

A non racial example would be, as a senior ranking soldier, how I speak to the soldiers and how I speak to leadership. To put it simply, I use more colorful language when speaking to the soldiers. F bombs don't generally go over well when speaking with generals. But a well placed f bomb can gain you credibility and emphasize a point with the junior soldiers.

Basically, we change how speak pretty often based on what we want from our audience and what we expect, right or wrong, will resonate best with that audience. Which is another assumption.

Very good point. You communicate to your audience changing in order to do it better. I keep seeing old white guys equated with racists on this board. Maybe the problem many had with Cam had as much to do with age as race.

I have learned a thing or two since coming to the Huddle. I didn't like the strip club images of Cam posted a while back. I thought they were at odds with photos of Cam praying before games and seemed hypocritical. Someone here explained the music originates in the clubs so there was a reason other than tits and ass for him to be there. That's no where near as seedy as my experiences with those types of bars. 

As a 58 year old white guy I don't get/understand a lot about Cams culture. I also think its a generational thing. We live in a look at me selfie picture taking society. That's a lot different than the way things were in the 70's.

[PhillyB]

16 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

Which is also an assumption on the girls parts...I assume.

But where PhillyB is wrong is that as a white dude he doesn't need to change his language. I think we all do it more than we think...and in many different ways.

A racial example from my life would be growing up on the public basketball courts. I felt like o had to assimilate somewhat in order to communicate better and be accepted. For no other reason so I would get picked (aside from my play) or so I could call next without getting beat up.

A non racial example would be, as a senior ranking soldier, how I speak to the soldiers and how I speak to leadership. To put it simply, I use more colorful language when speaking to the soldiers. F bombs don't generally go over well when speaking with generals. But a well placed f bomb can gain you credibility and emphasize a point with the junior soldiers.

Basically, we change how speak pretty often based on what we want from our audience and what we expect, right or wrong, will resonate best with that audience. Which is another assumption.

right, but there's a difference between code-switching from white slang to standard white so you sound appropriate versus black slang to standard white so you sound appropriate. we're not talking about the black girls going from swearing to speaking professionally, we're talking about them going from black professionalism to white professionalism.

there are power dynamics involved that make your comparison an inadequate one. as teeray said, there's no such thing as "white media" or "white journalists" because speaking linguistically and culturally and socially, white journalism is the default.

this doesn't mean we go oh boo hooooooo the poor blacks they have it so hard! because it's not a huge deal (none of them seemed to think so) but it is an obstacle and it's taken for granted that you or i will not have to deal with it (which, again, is what white privilege actually is.)

[Moorgan]

4 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

right, but there's a difference between code-switching from white slang to standard white so you sound appropriate versus black slang to standard white so you sound appropriate. we're not talking about the black girls going from swearing to speaking professionally, we're talking about them going from black professionalism to white professionalism.

there are power dynamics involved that make your comparison an inadequate one. as teeray said, there's no such thing as "white media" or "white journalists" because speaking linguistically and culturally and socially, white journalism is the default.

this doesn't mean we go oh boo hooooooo the poor blacks they have it so hard! because it's not a huge deal (none of them seemed to think so) but it is an obstacle and it's taken for granted that you or i will not have to deal with it (which, again, is what white privilege actually is.)

Yes but my point was that of switching how you communicate for any reason. I have switched to a mild form of Ebonics at times. And having children who are 20 and 17, who have gone to a majority black high school, 71st in Fayetteville, NC, my ability to communicate with my own children has to incorporate some form of Ebonics. 

The black culture, as if that can be a monolithic thing, but whatever, is a part and a big part of the younger generations culture. To some degree it started in my generation when my older brother and subsequently me embraced Public Enemy, the Sugar Hill Gang, Eddie Murphy, etc.

But with my kids, it's even more a part of it. I'm actually happy for it. I hope it leads to less racism. My daughter once asked me if it would be ok if she had a black boyfriend. I felt like I failed as a father because she needed to ask. But my grandparents answer would've been much different than mine. So I got that going for me. Which is nice.

[Raskle]

38 minutes ago, teeray said:

You dont say "White journalists" or "White media" because white is the dominate culture of the United States.

White is default. 

fair enough teeray. I just hope my point got across is all