Coaching or Execution?

[tiger7_88]

34 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

 

I guess I'll have to dig more deeply into the play by play, but it wasn't obvious to me in doing the gamebook data entry that we abandoned the run,   Here's the breakdown of our running game 1st & 2nd half:

About 60% of our rushing attempts in week 3 were in 1st half. 

But rushing yards were nearly 50 / 50 in week 3

And YPC went up in 2nd half of week 3

With 5 minutes left in the game, the TV broadcast noted that Cam only had 4 pass attempts up to that point.

Now I'm sure they weren't counting the times he was sacked either, so it may have been more like 9 pass attempts.  But it was for sure that we didn't go "pass heavy" in the 2nd half.  At least until we got to desperation time.

[panthers55]

Of course execution. Turnovers, special teams blunders and penalty killing drives were responsible for both losses and almost cost us against SF. Anybody with a modicum of football awareness knows that holding penalties which brings back a TD, stops first downs resulting in first and 20 or first and 30 after 2 penalties, blocking whiffs ending in sacks, and 2 missed field goals as well as a TD on a special teams gaff and a safety were the biggest difference between 3-0 and 1-3. Fix mistakes and we win all three games so far. That doesn't even include wide open receivers which aren't seen, and allowing guys to make catches over the middle uncontested and getting no pressure on quarterbacks.

Since no one here even has a clue how much of the play calling is Shula versus Cam changing or not changing the play, you don't really know what was called versus what occurred. Plus why does McDermott get a pass after the defensive gaffs and points allowed in the second half versus the first.  You could make a good argument that the defense caused more of the problems than the offense. And the offensive gaffs which put the defense in bad spots was totally bad execution.  And what about the special teams coach ?  

[panthers55]

Execution always trumps playcalling. It has to. A play is determined to be a good or poor play when it is over and you see the result. The result depends on the execution. If you call a draw play on 3rd and 20, it is a bad play if it goes nowhere but is fine if it gains 21 yards.  So a play executed poorly is deemed a poor play and a well executed play is deemed a great play because it got the desired results. The only caveats are a well executed play that had no chance of getting the desired result like a completed  5 yard out route when you needed 15 or a quarterback sneak on 3rd and 15.  Otherwise as long as the play works it is always is deemed a good play and what usually makes it work is good execution.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

execution.

people want to say poor execution is a reflection of poor coaching, but hell...i can tell my kids what the best thing to do is and i can tell me employees the best way to do something and in the end all of them can still fug it up.

[tiger7_88]

4 minutes ago, nosuchthingasapanther said:

execution.

people want to say poor execution is a reflection of poor coaching, but hell...i can tell my kids what the best thing to do is and i can tell me employees the best way to do something and in the end all of them can still fug it up.

A good boss doesn't have employees that constantly fug up.

THAT is what makes them a good boss.

Do the Patriots constantly fug up and "execute" badly?  

Do the Patriots panic at the first sign of another team changing its game plan?

Do the Patriots panic when they lose an important player?

No, they don't.  Because they have coaches who know what the fug they are doing. 

And this is not to say that Rivera can't become that.  I thought for a good while he was with the ol' "Riverboat" persona.  But he has run away screaming from that persona for a while now.  He's back to good ol' "by the book" Ron.

Now Shula?  Fugging hopeless cause.

[beastson]

Listen if you start off good in the 1st half, but come out 2nd half bad, that's all coaching

The Denver Broncos exposed Shula. They said it loud and clear, the Panthers changed nothing from what was on film. People still claiming execution on players. Some people man

[nosuchthingasapanther]

7 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

A good boss doesn't have employees that constantly fug up.

that's the thing, the panthers don't constantly fug up.

long gone are the days of mediocrity, but people don't see that. they're so accustomed to seeing a decent product that all hell breaks loose at the first sign of trouble. 

[panthers55]

17 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

A good boss doesn't have employees that constantly fug up.

THAT is what makes them a good boss.

Do the Patriots constantly fug up and "execute" badly?  

Do the Patriots panic at the first sign of another team changing its game plan?

Do the Patriots panic when they lose an important player?

No, they don't.  Because they have coaches who know what the fug they are doing. 

And this is not to say that Rivera can't become that.  I thought for a good while he was with the ol' "Riverboat" persona.  But he has run away screaming from that persona for a while now.  He's back to good ol' "by the book" Ron.

Now Shula?  Fugging hopeless cause.

Bosses and coaches only work with what you are given. Gameplanning is great only when it gets executed well.

Coaching is harder than being a boss at work because coaches can't just get rid of players without a better replacement and the talent pool is pretty limited. Bosses usually have much larger pools of applicants which can do the job.

As for the patriots and Belicheck always being the comparison level, that type of thinking is stupid. They are arguable the best team and coach in the NFL. There are 31 other coaches in the same boat as Ron. Of course given Rivera won the coach of the year in the last 2 out of 3 seasons, I would say you are in the very small minority who thinks Ron is an issue.

[panthers55]

40 minutes ago, beastson said:

Listen if you start off good in the 1st half, but come out 2nd half bad, that's all coaching

The Denver Broncos exposed Shula. They said it loud and clear, the Panthers changed nothing from what was on film. People still claiming execution on players. Some people man

Again that is stupid logic. You don't think the coaches anticipated what the defense was going to do on Sunday.  The problem defending wide 9 DEs and delayed blitzes up the middle is the OTs have to be good one on one and the RBs need to block well or Cam needs to hit them on a dumpoffs. Get real here until coaches play on the field, it is only players executing on the field. To think anything else is crazy. These are pros not high schoolers

[DamnItJake!]

With play calls coming in late Cam.. Not liking it..Causes delays so..its hard to say Cam not trusting the play calling but then the o- line dies.. Then the defense playing crazy soft... hmmm. in these two sentences I say the coaches!! Under-estimated a good team I saw who would give us a problem.. and they refuse to adjust for whatever damn reason. baffling

[panthers55]

10 minutes ago, DamnItJake! said:

With play calls coming in late Cam.. Not liking it..Causes delays so..its hard to say Cam not trusting the play calling but then the o- line dies.. Then the defense playing crazy soft... hmmm. in these two sentences I say the coaches!! Under-estimated a good team I saw who would give us a problem.. and they refuse to adjust for whatever damn reason. baffling

I didn't see any delay calls or timeout to avoid them on Sunday. Most times Cam was at the line with plenty of time to audibilize. This may have been a problem with SF but not Minnesota.  What game did you watch on Sunday.

And do you think the coaches told the players to play soft and let Minnesota go down the field and score.

Sometimes I think when God was giving out brains you guys thought he said trains and you missed yours.

[DamnItJake!]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

I didn't see any delay calls or timeout to avoid them on Sunday. Most times Cam was at the line with plenty of time to audibilize. This may have been a problem with SF but not Minnesota.  What game did you watch on Sunday.

I saw a lot of times Cam was not happy with the call being directed to him and his demeanor was evident.. So..he was not happy what he was being told to him and taking too long to get the plays going which screws up the offense.. But in essence the whole team looked like crap and under prepared!! So seeing how the Falcons D played last night.. Carolina is out for another long day especially in ATL!

[juliosantos]

coaching . we got to stick with what works . how come no play actions and roll outs with cam?? how come we dont throw short passes like last season , shulas looking like he did in 2014 when he just called bombs all day 

[panthers55]

10 minutes ago, DamnItJake! said:

I saw a lot of times Cam was not happy with the call being directed to him and his demeanor was evident.. So..he was not happy what he was being told to him and taking too long to get the plays going which screws up the offense.. But in essence the whole team looked like crap and under prepared!! So seeing how the Falcons D played last night.. Carolina is out for another long day especially in ATL!

So.let me get this straight. You saw through the helmet and visor that Can was getting a call over the mike that he didn't.like because you saw his demeanor change. And you saw that over the TV because the TV stayed on Cam the whole time and you are an expert on reading lips and body language? I'm impressed. Now once again maybe you are referring to the two timeouts he called against SF for that problem. So are we talking Minnesota or SF or are you kitchen sinking and throwing everything together.