It's OK to publicly admit folks, it feels great knocking off the Redskins and Josh Norman from the playoffs...

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

Please do point out all the blue chip free agents that wanted to sign with us and also go into detail about what kind of contracts they would have been rewarded out of your "come get your free money" negotiation tactics and how you would have worked it all under the salary cap.

That is the sad reality we didn't need blue chippers. We were replacing Harper and Tillman as well as Norman and neither of them were blue chippers either. We could have survived a rookie at corner if we had replaced the other 2 with decent vet alternatives and kept Coleman at free safety were he belongs. The fallacy is that we had to replace Josh with a highly rated or expensive free agent, we didn't.

[grimesgoat]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

That is the sad reality we didn't need blue chippers. We were replacing Harper and Tillman as well as Norman and neither of them were blue chippers either. We could have survived a rookie at corner if we had replaced the other 2 with decent vet alternatives and kept Coleman at free safety were he belongs. The fallacy is that we had to replace Josh with a highly rated or expensive free agent, we didn't.

point taken.  However 90% of the posters on here thought we could replace Harper with a blocking dummy and not lose a step - enter Boston.  Where things fell apart was counting on Boykin/Bene to be our "decent vet alternatives".  They were decent and vets in 2015, but not so much in 2016.

[panthers55]

48 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

point taken.  However 90% of the posters on here thought we could replace Harper with a blocking dummy and not lose a step - enter Boston.  Where things fell apart was counting on Boykin/Bene to be our "decent vet alternatives".  They were decent and vets in 2015, but not so much in 2016.

There actually were a decent amount of free agents available at corner at the end of April. We were never going to spend big bucks for a big name free agent. And all we needed was an average to above average one. I am sure players wanted to be here after a 15-1 season.  Add in a good strong safety, move Coleman back to free safety and bring in a good nickel corner and we wouldnt  have been great but certainly not awful. I think that what Gettleman and many posters forget with players like Harper and Tillman is that as their physical skills take a step back, they make it up with improved understanding of the game and good communication and leadership skills. You can be a step slower if you can anticipate where everyone will be and be where you know the ball is headed. At the first of the season what killed us was broken coverages and poor communication.  I know it is ancient history now but if you don't learn from your mistakes you are bound to repeat them. 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, grimesgoat said:

point taken.  However 90% of the posters on here thought we could replace Harper with a blocking dummy and not lose a step - enter Boston.  Where things fell apart was counting on Boykin/Bene to be our "decent vet alternatives".  They were decent and vets in 2015, but not so much in 2016.

I was hopeful that Boykin could be one of those guys. I blame the doctors for not doing their due diligence and discovering his degenerative hip issue. He didn't even make it to training camp so the issue had to be pretty significant. 

[Cpt slay a ho]

I get your point.  Its a negotiating tactic.  Dave offered a contract for 11 mil per year for 4-5 years or 14 mil for 1.  Either way, Norman would be the highest paid player on the team other than Cam.  The ball is in Norman's court.  He's not holding out but "negotiating" as you say.

So you are the GM.  You've got the MVP and pretty much everyone back on a 17-2 team and you're ready to make a run.  But Norman's negotiating tactic has caused you to miss possible opportunities to improve via free agency.  The draft is in 1 week.  If Norman holds out, you miss out on his services as well as a possible comp. pick next year.  What do you do?  Draft a cb?  Draft 2 cbs?  Do nothing and pray he eventually comes around?  Can a GM really afford to say 'he'll eventually sign, everyone else does'.  

Even after the tag was rescinded, Norman could have signed for 10-12 million per year (according to Voth).  That was still on the table.  But that wasn't enough for Norman.  Within days he signed with the Redskins for $15 per and we got our comp pick.

Dave gave Norman exactly what he wanted - the opportunity to sign a long-term contract for 15 mil per. Just not with us. 

 

 

The long term thing was never the problem and the right choice,to sign him long term for anything above 10-12m year wouldn't be wise. The problem in your statement is rescinding the tag isn't a bad decision either, but doing it after most or damn near all quality FA's are signed was a mistake, thinking late round rookies could fill the shoes of season vets was a mistake, and be contempt with returning majority of the Super Bowl team from last year was a mistake. We didn't get to 17-2 blowing out every team by 30+ like the pats did in there 17-1 year, we played a lot of close games, a lot. The team needed improvement after the Super Bowl and instead we regressed.

Also we had ALL the leverage in the Norman situation, there's no way I believe Norman sits the entire season, since it hasn't been done in decades, and he himself loses MILLIONS by siting out a year of football. Whether incompetent agent or not that's what our gm gets paid big bucks to do, work out the kinks, you see it every year Kam Chancellor, Joey Bosa, Desean Jackson, Von Miller ect, I just find it ridiculous to fault josh for not signing the tag when there's hundreds of examples of other players taking the same or similar tactic. Also I would give our gm the benefit of the doubt but this is like the 3rd or 4th player that's complained about him.





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[grimesgoat]

1 hour ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

The long term thing was never the problem and the right choice,to sign him long term for anything above 10-12m year wouldn't be wise. The problem in your statement is rescinding the tag isn't a bad decision either, but doing it after most or damn near all quality FA's are signed was a mistake, thinking late round rookies could fill the shoes of season vets was a mistake, and be contempt with returning majority of the Super Bowl team from last year was a mistake. We didn't get to 17-2 blowing out every team by 30+ like the pats did in there 17-1 year, we played a lot of close games, a lot. The team needed improvement after the Super Bowl and instead we regressed.

Also we had ALL the leverage in the Norman situation, there's no way I believe Norman sits the entire season, since it hasn't been done in decades, and he himself loses MILLIONS by siting out a year of football. Whether incompetent agent or not that's what our gm gets paid big bucks to do, work out the kinks, you see it every year Kam Chancellor, Joey Bosa, Desean Jackson, Von Miller ect, I just find it ridiculous to fault josh for not signing the tag when there's hundreds of examples of other players taking the same or similar tactic. Also I would give our gm the benefit of the doubt but this is like the 3rd or 4th player that's complained about him.





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You are probably right that Norman eventually comes around, but how long do you wait?  Training camp?  Preseason?  5th game of the year?  Do you still get a comp pick in 2017 if he never plays?  Maybe there was someone out there that he thought he could add with the money that was tied up with Norman that would improve the team, although as I said, most of the big signings were off the board early.

But he had Boykin and Bene already.  Adding a 2nd rounder and mid-3rd rounder isn't scraping the bottom of the barrel either.  He could not have known all the corners would get hurt and we'd be throwing Sanchez out there.

And frankly, I don't want the Boss to be too chummy with the players.  He's not there to be a pal.  He's there to find talent and manage the cap.  Being a nice guy is not in the job description.  

[ickmule]

I'm as pissed as anyone about this season, but you do realize that only one team from the NFC playoff bunch last year is guaranteed a playoff spot this season? Everyone took a hit this season in the NFC. I'm not taking up for Rivera, but this season was weird top to bottom. 

[Cpt slay a ho]

You are probably right that Norman eventually comes around, but how long do you wait?  Training camp?  Preseason?  5th game of the year?  Do you still get a comp pick in 2017 if he never plays?  Maybe there was someone out there that he thought he could add with the money that was tied up with Norman that would improve the team, although as I said, most of the big signings were off the board early.

But he had Boykin and Bene already.  Adding a 2nd rounder and mid-3rd rounder isn't scraping the bottom of the barrel either.  He could not have known all the corners would get hurt and we'd be throwing Sanchez out there.

And frankly, I don't want the Boss to be too chummy with the players.  He's not there to be a pal.  He's there to find talent and manage the cap.  Being a nice guy is not in the job description.  

Comp picks are based on a percentage of the snaps a player plays, I don't think Norman holds out that long to negate that, is just not wise business or player wise for a 28 year old cb in his prime to take half a season off. 100% not logical. As far as big splash signings I'm not for it unless it's de or Ot, or a player that will make a significant impact for years, boykin and Bene both were ? Marks especially Bene coming back from leg injury. The situation it self put our rooks in a hard position.

As far as being chummy with our guys it's either or, but regardless the choice, at the end of the day there's some kind of professionalism that has to be maintain and I feel like that's lacking. 3-4 players speaking out in consecutive years about our gm, even some of the worst franchise don't have this happening.

Let me be clear, I still think DG is a good gm just he makes some lack of judgment mistakes frequently


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[FootballLivesMatter]

Yea, I happy

[2jakefansinva]

Got my year end review tomorrow with my two bosses.

they are both Foreskin fans.....

plan on breaking out the Cam mask as I'm leaving.

if we weren't discussing bonus I'd wear it into the meeting.