Analysis: Beyond The Completion Percentage - Why Carolina's Scheme And Weapons Made Life Hard For Cam

[Hogmolliesmaht]

2 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Some say 2016 was an aberration. Some say 2015 was an aberration. I say they are both were who Cam is. Even in his MVP year his completion completion was only 59%. You have to go all the way back to 2003 to find a MVP QB with similar passing stats which was Steve McNair and he had a 60.2% rating. Cam had more your yards however. Cam is who he is and thats ok.

Side note, every QB after that year who won the MVP was at least 65% and 4000+ yards. 

I agree. Cam is who he is but I still believe he can pick it up just a little bit. That's all I'm asking for. He don't have to be Tom Brady, but he should be shooting for that kind of success and that means making just a little bit better decisions and being just a little bit more accurate at times.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

10 minutes ago, lightsout said:

I agree with this point. The playbook isn't necessarily "bad". It just requires VERY high levels of execution with a very small margin for error as compared to what other "elite" QBs are asked to do. This is fact. Look at EVERY play Brady runs, then look at EVERY play Cam runs. Tell me you don't see a LARGE difference.

Cam did fine in this same system in 2015 because our OL stayed healthy and figured out how to work together. He struggled last year because of OL and his WRs not getting separation deep in a system that asked them to go deep far more than it asked them to run slants. That, ONCE AGAIN, is the point of the thread.

There is not nearly as much difference as some are claiming. There are plenty of short passes in Shula's playbook. It's just a matter of what personnel they have and what they emphasize each week. I have watched Brady throw it all over the yard sometimes too. The Patriots emphasize what's working at the time and there is no reason on earth why the Panthers can't do the same. If Cam sees something that would work better, there is no reason why he shouldn't say something or just audible into that play. I just refuse to believe that our coaching staff is handcuffing him for no reason.

[Saca312]

6 minutes ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

I agree. Cam is who he is but I still believe he can pick it up just a little bit. That's all I'm asking for. He don't have to be Tom Brady, but he should be shooting for that kind of success and that means making just a little bit better decisions and being just a little bit more accurate at times.

Ofc Cam could get better. But you completely put nearly all the blame on him and ignore the fact that there are other reasons he doesn't look as good.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

7 minutes ago, lightsout said:

You saying something doesn't make it fact. You are claiming Cam is an average passer when all of his peers call him elite. Soooooo, bye Tia.

You know that works both ways. Just because you say something, that doesn't make it a fact either.

[lightsout]

Just now, Hogmolliesmaht said:

There is not nearly as much difference as some are claiming. There are plenty of short passes in Shula's playbook. It's just a matter of what personnel they have and what they emphasize each week. I have watched Brady throw it all over the yard sometimes too. The Patriots emphasize what's working at the time and there is no reason on earth why the Panthers can't do the same. If Cam sees something that would work better, there is no reason why he shouldn't say something. I just refuse to believe that our coaching staff is handcuffing him for no reason.

 

I agree, Shula has a lot of short passes. Slants to Funch and KB is about as much a money play as we have in our playbook. Shula maybe ran it 10-15 times all season. I know this because I talked about it with friends all the time during the year. 

[lightsout]

Just now, Hogmolliesmaht said:

You know that works both ways. Just because you say something, that doesn't make it a fact either.

Except everything I am saying is verifiable by watching the games...

[Hogmolliesmaht]

2 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Ofc Cam could get better. But you completely put nearly all the blame on him and ignore the fact that there are other reasons he doesn't look as good.

When did I do that? All I'm saying is that it's not just the playbook or the play calling like 90% of the people on this board claim. Cam is great but he is not untouchable and he has his flaws and the low completion percentage is one of them, no matter how you slice it or spin it. 

[Hogmolliesmaht]

8 minutes ago, lightsout said:

Except everything I am saying is verifiable by watching the games...

I watch them too. So what? Do you have bionic eyes or something that makes your opinion right all the time or are you just that arrogant? Hell, millions of people watch the games and I'm sure millions of them would disagree with you on some things. It's called being human. You should try it.

[lightsout]

1 minute ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

I watch them too. So what? Do you have bionic eyes or something that makes your opinion right all the time or are you just that arrogant? Hell, millions of people watch the games and I'm sure millions of them would disagree with you on some things. It's called being human. You should try it.

Oh, I'm definitely arrogant, but that's not the point. Watch Cam's incomplete passes and count how many were just bad decisions or poor throws by Cam. Then, of those, think of the degree of difficulty. I will bet that you'll then see what we're talking about. That deep throws are harder to hit, especially when receivers are tightly covered. But even so, Cam proved last season, again and again, that he can drop absolute dimes on those receivers in tight coverage. He's just asked to do it too much.

is Cam perfect? No. Can he improve certain aspects of his game? Sure, there's room for growth in everybody. But to sit here and say that Cam's numbers are solely on Cam and nothing else is extremely ignorant and I honestly have never met anybody that has played ball that would say that Cam is inaccurate or inconsistent because the numbers say so.

[Darth Biscuit]

Only made it thru page 5...  too much dumb in this thread... 

 

Cam did not have a great season last year but to say things like "it's all on Cam" or "Cam's just not a good passer" simply doesn't know football.

Cam made some bad plays at times, but coaching, injuries and poor Oline play (and possibly Cam's own injury) played bigger parts to the bad season.

All season Cam still made throws that simply make you go "wow" even when we weren't playing well.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

13 minutes ago, lightsout said:

Oh, I'm definitely arrogant, but that's not the point. Watch Cam's incomplete passes and count how many were just bad decisions or poor throws by Cam. Then, of those, think of the degree of difficulty. I will bet that you'll then see what we're talking about. That deep throws are harder to hit, especially when receivers are tightly covered. But even so, Cam proved last season, again and again, that he can drop absolute dimes on those receivers in tight coverage. He's just asked to do it too much.

is Cam perfect? No. Can he improve certain aspects of his game? Sure, there's room for growth in everybody. But to sit here and say that Cam's numbers are solely on Cam and nothing else is extremely ignorant and I honestly have never met anybody that has played ball that would say that Cam is inaccurate or inconsistent because the numbers say so.

My point is that a lot of times, that degree of difficulty is because Cam chose to go downfield or didn't anticipate his throws. The great ones know how to throw their receivers open. Cam simply needs to get better at those things. That's all.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

2 minutes ago, Darth Biscuit said:

Only made it thru page 5...  too much dumb in this thread... 

 

Cam did not have a great season last year but to say things like "it's all on Cam" or "Cam's just not a good passer" simply doesn't know football.

Cam made some bad plays at times, but coaching, injuries and poor Oline play (and possibly Cam's own injury) played bigger parts to the bad season.

All season Cam still made throws that simply make you go "wow" even when we weren't playing well.

Literally nobody in this thread said it was all on Cam. I am tired of people claiming it's all on Shula though.

[Darth Biscuit]

4 minutes ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

Literally nobody in this thread said it was all on Cam. I am tired of people claiming it's all on Shula though.

It was a damn lot on Shula and Rivera.  There was some awful coaching last season. 

[lightsout]

7 minutes ago, Hogmolliesmaht said:

My point is that a lot of times, that degree of difficulty is because Cam chose to go downfield or didn't anticipate his throws. The great ones know how to throw their receivers open. Cam simply needs to get better at those things. That's all.

OK, now we're in a point-counterpoint type of conversation, finally.

You seem (correct me if I'm wrong) to assume that downfield passing plays always have a safety valve that is open more times than not. Shula often doesn't, and if he does, it's often a guy sitting in the linebackers and he's covered. This is observable in every game. Also, hard to anticipate throws when there's no separation. Throwing receivers open is referencing either 1) throwing the ball previous to the route breaking like in post routes, flag routes, comebacks, etc., 2) on deep balls with a lot of field to either side of the receiver and the QB throws the pass to the open field away from the defender(s) so the receiver has a chance to run under it and away from the defenders. 

When there's no separation, Cam can anticipate his throws all day and he's still going to be forced to thread the needle 20+ yards downfield. Again, look at guys like Brady or even Matt Ryan more times than not when they go deep. Wide open receivers. Cam doesn't get that luxury often at all (maybe once every quarter of the season). Again, observable fact.


You can't always create space for your receiver if they can't run routes or negotiate the press well enough to get open. 89 was great at this. He would get open when he would cut during his route or he would get the separation by beating a defender trying to close in tight on him (either presnap at the line or even 5 yards off). We don't have a receiver that can do that that often.