CMC is not a RB...he is a WR

[rayzor]

4 hours ago, AU-panther said:

What is the one thing the organization hasn't tried to give Cam to be successful?

maybe a good OC?

[The Righteous Troll]

I've said this from the very beginning. Picking McCaffery 9th overall was a huge mistake and he's not a NFL running back. Trading down would have been the smart thing to do and get two first rounders in the 2018 NFL Draft. His replacement at Stanford is already better than him so it's the system that Stanford runs. Trading down and taking Dalvin Cook, Tarik Cohen( you would think being IN North Carolina the Panthers would know all about him), Joe Mixon, Kareem Hunt or Alvin Karama would have made a huge difference. 

If the GM insisted on staying put..Lattimore, Jonathan Allen, Derek Barnett or Malik Hooker would have been better picks.

[The Righteous Troll]

5 hours ago, Randolph Panther said:

Actually just about anyone.  Probably Lattimore though.  Playing across from Bradberry we would have had a legitimate d backfield.  Heck I would have been fine drafting another defensive end and then drafting Cook in the 2 round. 

The Panthers could have traded down and gotten the 4th overall Corner in the NFL Tre'Davious White

[Woodie]

4 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

That's my point we didn't do enough in fa to warrant picking cmc, I think we were the 27th pass defense last year, so taking lattimore or hooker makes perfect sense at 8. Especially when looking at the Qbs and WRs in our division. KC has a better line then us and hill whose going to keep defenses honest and prevent them from stacking the box, we are having the same issues that limited stew as a runner last year, he's being hit in the backfield, and this is even on toss and stretch plays not just runs up the gut

Ok, now you're switching from offense to defense as the should-have-been pick.  I'll play along.  Defense wasn't our biggest need...especially when you consider that Bradberry and Worley played much better as the year went on.  And whether or not you agreed, the team felt they addressed the key needs on defense, so they were able to take the biggest playmaker on the board, which happened to be McCaffrey.  And based on the contract they gave Kalil, they felt they fixed the OL as well.  

But even so, both Lattimore and Hooker had legitimate injury questions heading into the draft that have played out in their rookie years to various degrees.  IMO, neither would have done much to help us win more games this year.  In fact, I'll go as far as saying that McCaffrey has and will help us win more than either of those players.  I also didn't and don't think either have the potential that CMC does (not a knock on them, just that I believe CMC can be exceptional with a good OC).

Yes, KC has a better OL, and they also have a legit deep threat in Hill that we don't.  But that's not the issue.  The real issue is that they have a better scheme and play calling than we do.  I actually believe we have the parts to be a high end offense if used correctly.  But Shula is not able to design a game plan that takes advantage of the players we have.  A good coach is able to adjust his philosophy to fit the personnel, not force the personnel into his philosophy no matter how unsuited they are for it.  McCaffrey shouldn't be penalized for Shula's shortcomings.

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

22 minutes ago, Woodie said:

Ok, now you're switching from offense to defense as the should-have-been pick.  I'll play along.  Defense wasn't our biggest need...especially when you consider that Bradberry and Worley played much better as the year went on.  And whether or not you agreed, the team felt they addressed the key needs on defense, so they were able to take the biggest playmaker on the board, which happened to be McCaffrey.  And based on the contract they gave Kalil, they felt they fixed the OL as well.  

But even so, both Lattimore and Hooker had legitimate injury questions heading into the draft that have played out in their rookie years to various degrees.  IMO, neither would have done much to help us win more games this year.  In fact, I'll go as far as saying that McCaffrey has and will help us win more than either of those players.  I also didn't and don't think either have the potential that CMC does (not a knock on them, just that I believe CMC can be exceptional with a good OC).

Yes, KC has a better OL, and they also have a legit deep threat in Hill that we don't.  But that's not the issue.  The real issue is that they have a better scheme and play calling than we do.  I actually believe we have the parts to be a high end offense if used correctly.  But Shula is not able to design a game plan that takes advantage of the players we have.  A good coach is able to adjust his philosophy to fit the personnel, not force the personnel into his philosophy no matter how unsuited they are for it.  McCaffrey shouldn't be penalized for Shula's shortcomings.

 

Switching? I've been on our pick being defense for some time. Worley, even late last year didn't show anything that should warrant him being the starter going forward, good depth but should not be a starter. Hooker or Lattimore creating a turnover for this defense that has 1 int on the year so far helps out tremendously imo, signing kalil wasn't a good move, could have spent the money elsewhere but signing him and expecting oher to come back from his grade 107 concussion were all big hope moves, which this team had been living off of for the last couple seasons.KC is top down better then us in the coaching department, play calling is a minuscule issue when looking at the grand scheme of things, our head coach still plays too conservative and has click management issues after 6 year and in the league. Along with deciding on the best personnel to put on the field. 

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Switching? I've been on our pick being defense for some time. Worley, even late last year didn't show anything that should warrant him being the starter going forward, good depth but should not be a starter. Hooker or Lattimore creating a turnover for this defense that has 1 int on the year so far helps out tremendously imo, signing kalil wasn't a good move, could have spent the money elsewhere but signing him and expecting oher to come back from his grade 107 concussion were all big hope moves, which this team had been living off of for the last couple seasons.KC is top down better then us in the coaching department, play calling is a minuscule issue when looking at the grand scheme of things, our head coach still plays too conservative and has click management issues after 6 year and in the league. Along with deciding on the best personnel to put on the field. 

I was referencing the post of yours that I was originally responding to in which you talked about the offense and not having all the pieces to take CMC.  I really wasn't aware of you're general opinions of the draft.

I don't disagree that Hooker or Lattimore would have been good picks in general (although I was legitimately concerned with their injuries and lack of experience).  I just think that McCaffrey was a much better long-term choice and believe he is a better player than either of them, regardless of injuries.  But without solid coaching it won't matter.  We agree that KC's offensive coaches are much better than ours, but I can't agree on the play calling point.  I think it is huge.  We have all the plays in our playbook to be scary good on offense (we've seen enough of it over the years, they just use the creative stuff VERY sporadically), but rather than pull out some of the more creative options, Shula insists on sticking to what he is comfortable with.  Combine that with our inability to run block, and it's a recipe for an anemic run game.  

I don't think they ever expected Oher to play this year.  I'm sure they hoped, but I don't think they believed it was very likely.  And arguing about whether or not Kalil was a good signing is pointless.  The team thought it was a good move.  So from that perspective, as well as the fact that we expected R Kalil back 100%, along with our Guard tandem, it is clear the team thought the OL would be much better this year.  While I can't argue with questioning their ability to evaluate the OL, I totally understand, given their belief in Kalil, why they thought they had the pieces in place to bring in a playmaker such as McCaffrey.  Even if I didn't have complete faith in the move, I did hope that Kalil would turn it around here.  Unfortunately , it hasn't turned out that way.  

[micnificent28]

Stop justifying this cmc need more designed blah blah blah crap. I personally think Shula has been inventive with the way he has deigned some plays for cmc. He has been literally force fed the rock. I don’t care how bad the line is.. U could have 250 pound linemen blocking and I would expect some kind of a fluke big play from a talented player from time to time. This kid has not flashed big play ability. Terrible line or not u have to flash.. it’s how you find good players on bad teams in college. The same rule should apply when evaluating in the pros.

 

I said this was a bad pick day one.. he doesn’t have elite timed speed and he is less than 207 pounds, and can’t make people miss. What kind of a top 10 pick doesn’t have any of those traits? Has there ever been a running back this overhyped? Sure there have been bigger busts in the past but they all had an elite trait to give warrant to drafting them. CMC got blown up because of the offense he was in produced big numbers and churns out plays. It also helps he is the first white back in a while to test decently in the combine to further elevate his time. CMC was projected late first early second then he runs 4.47 and people vault him ahead of cook and some said he was better than fournette.

The Guy Has excellent hands... his dad should be proud he taught him well... but that’s about the only thing that has kept us all from flat out calling him a bust at this point.  Fournette ran a 4.5 and even he had broken a 75 yard td... this he is the least of our worries when he was a top 8 pick crap needs to stop. He is a big worry as u expect more from that high a draft pick. He is suppose to be a cornerstone. 

[Bj-Monster23]

13 hours ago, The Righteous Troll said:

I've said this from the very beginning. Picking McCaffery 9th overall was a huge mistake and he's not a NFL running back. Trading down would have been the smart thing to do and get two first rounders in the 2018 NFL Draft. His replacement at Stanford is already better than him so it's the system that Stanford runs. Trading down and taking Dalvin Cook, Tarik Cohen( you would think being IN North Carolina the Panthers would know all about him), Joe Mixon, Kareem Hunt or Alvin Karama would have made a huge difference. 

If the GM insisted on staying put..Lattimore, Jonathan Allen, Derek Barnett or Malik Hooker would have been better picks.

I hate to say it but right now this seems to be truth. McCaffery wasn't my first choice for the 8th overall pick but I knew he was a legit chance. IMO right now looking back at the draft Malik Hooker, Derek Barnett, or OJ Howard should've been the pick. 

[The Righteous Troll]

2 hours ago, Bj-Monster23 said:

I hate to say it but right now this seems to be truth. McCaffery wasn't my first choice for the 8th overall pick but I knew he was a legit chance. IMO right now looking back at the draft Malik Hooker, Derek Barnett, or OJ Howard should've been the pick. 

The Bills traded down and got the top rookie corner in the NFL right.now...that was a smart move.

Never was drinking the McCaffery kool aid. It's like the Reggie Bush or Ameer Abdullah although Abdullah wasn't a high draft pick and Bush might actually be better. I thought when he did all slot drills it was obvious he was a slot WR at the next level