NFC Unsung Heros. Panthers: Star Lotulelei

[LinvilleGorge]

Good player. He does the dirty work on the DL that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. I hope we can keep him, but I honestly think Butler was drafted to take his spot. It's tough to have two big money guys in the same position group. We paid Short. We paid Turner. Now we may lose Norwell and/or Star. That's just the reality of dealing with a salary cap.

[TheRed]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

I've always liked both Star and KK. 

I didn't like the Vernon pick but since we made it.....I think KK was the DT they shouldn't of paid.   No matter how you spin it, Vernon is a KK backup.   Or KK is Vernon's.   I mean, yeah situations they can play together but overall, they play the same position.  Star pairs better with either one. 

I never have liked the adding high round picks to spots already occupied.   Limits what you can get out of them.  Vernon and Shaq are two recent examples who haven't played nearly as much as they should of.....because, well, they shouldn't. 

 

 

Even if you can justify the 1st round selections, the fact that they won't actually see starting time when it matters until their rookie contracts are up is just poor management and lack of basic foresight.

[LinvilleGorge]

41 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Even if you can justify the 1st round selections, the fact that they won't actually see starting time when it matters until their rookie contracts are up is just poor management and lack of basic foresight.

Gettleman definitely made some luxury picks in the 1st round, that's for sure. It'd be one thing if those luxury picks looked like budding superstars, but that hasn't been the case. I think Shaq is a solid OLB, but it kind of sucks to draft a "solid OLB" when we had so many other more pressing needs. Butler has shown some flashes, but again, we were fielding practice squaders at WR and trash in the secondary.

[ChibCU]

5 hours ago, TheRed said:

Uh, hey guy? We never saw back to back winning seasons under DG either. And honestly if it weren't for Cam Newton's rushing, we likely were looking at back to back losing seasons in 2016 and 2017.

Well, we know it wasn't going to be all-pro level of accuracy and read progression that would compensate.

[TheRed]

14 minutes ago, ChibCU said:

Well, we know it wasn't going to be all-pro level of accuracy and read progression that would compensate.

That's quite the hot take you've got there.

[JARROD]

8 hours ago, TheRed said:

Uh, hey guy? We never saw back to back winning seasons under DG either. And honestly if it weren't for Cam Newton's rushing, we likely were looking at back to back losing seasons in 2016 and 2017.

True true. 

Im kind of torn on the issue really. DG did give us the best winning record ever under any GM, but there’s Cam Newton and Luke Kuechly, both Hurney products.

kind of like when one party makes policy changes that make impacts when the next president or party is in and they get the credit or the toast for it.

So DG got us playoffs and a Super Bowl 4 out of 5 years or was it Cam and Luke? 

DG crashed with me with Josh Norman,.. followed by Ted Ginn.

hurney did it to us with the big contracts, and bringing in Tolbert to “replace” Shockey—-

if dumbass had not done that and we had the same offense as 2011, with that defense we probably go to the playoffs and kept Hurney, no DG at all. 

How about they made good calls in their own right,.. and they most certainly made serious catastrophic calls too.

hopefully Norv, Scott and Washington fix us,.. still not too high on Hurney other than our first round pick will work out.

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, JARROD said:

True true. 

Im kind of torn on the issue really. DG did give us the best winning record ever under any GM, but there’s Cam Newton and Luke Kuechly, both Hurney products.

kind of like when one party makes policy changes that make impacts when the next president or party is in and they get the credit or the toast for it.

So DG got us playoffs and a Super Bowl 4 out of 5 years or was it Cam and Luke? 

DG crashed with me with Josh Norman,.. followed by Ted Ginn.

hurney did it to us with the big contracts, and bringing in Tolbert to “replace” Shockey—-

if dumbass had not done that and we had the same offense as 2011, with that defense we probably go to the playoffs and kept Hurney, no DG at all. 

How about they made good calls in their own right,.. and they most certainly made serious catastrophic calls too.

hopefully Norv, Scott and Washington fix us,.. still not too high on Hurney other than our first round pick will work out.

They both had their share of good/bad moves. Unfortunately the respective bad moves for each of them hurt our team tremendously.

I was openly supportive of DG until the failure that was his 2017 offseason came to fruition after we faltered in 2016. He tried to get too cute, and let his ego get in the way to the detriment of the franchise.

As far as Hurney? Bleh. I'd rather have someone else. But all I can do is hope he's learned from his past.

[JARROD]

We should keep star if he wants to stay, but with Vernon I don’t think star will get what he wants here. 

Following up on my last post, on an N if L note,..

what if Hurney kept Shockey and our offense wouldn’t have sputtered in 2012, we make the playoffs and Hurney stayed,..

2013 do we still go to the playoffs, I say yes.

2014, we would have kept Steve Smith? Yes,... would we have gone to the playoffs and then beat San Francisco if we in fact still played them? Yes,,.. we probably win more because Steve is here, no Benjamin drafted and we would have taken someone else?

2015 Super Bowl with STEVE Smith?

2016 Josh Norman stays? We have another playoff run?

im wondering,...of course we would have back loaded contracts so bad we could not go get any FA hardly.

who knows.

[heel31ok]

10 hours ago, stbugs said:

Man, your DG hate is comical. Maximize the core? The Panthers don’t have two winning seasons back to back in their history but you bash the GM who was there for 5 offseasons on teams that went to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. What other GM in our history’s team had a record of 51-28-1?

To me, we put teams on the field capable of winning it all 3 out of 5 years and got to the Super Bowl once. Should have won that game. 

3 outta 4...and a masterful job orchestrating the suck that was the nfc south into a conf championship with a losing record...lol..

[heel31ok]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

No, 4 out of 5. I will give him credit for this year as well since he was responsible for FA and the draft.

I still laugh at bashing 2014 which had the end of the season run with the creation of the OL that was a huge launching pad for 2015’s amazing run.

the FA lol... the one thing i agree with thered on...wasted 50 mil on Kalil... so yeah give him credit... as well as letting Ginn walk twice ...you would have thought the genius would have learned the first time he let him walk...pitiful, so glad he is a giant...watch for the definition of insanity in NY...

[heel31ok]

Just now, stbugs said:

Awesome, sounds like you agree with me on the 4 out of 5 then. Glad you changed your mind. 

you got any q-tips... to be clear , no i do not agree.

[KSpan]

9 hours ago, JARROD said:

We should keep star if he wants to stay, but with Vernon I don’t think star will get what he wants here. 

Following up on my last post, on an N if L note,..

what if Hurney kept Shockey and our offense wouldn’t have sputtered in 2012, we make the playoffs and Hurney stayed,..

2013 do we still go to the playoffs, I say yes.

2014, we would have kept Steve Smith? Yes,... would we have gone to the playoffs and then beat San Francisco if we in fact still played them? Yes,,.. we probably win more because Steve is here, no Benjamin drafted and we would have taken someone else?

2015 Super Bowl with STEVE Smith?

2016 Josh Norman stays? We have another playoff run?

im wondering,...of course we would have back loaded contracts so bad we could not go get any FA hardly.

who knows.

Steve Smith said he planned to retire after the 2014 season and his release re-lit his fire.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steve-smith-was-going-to-retire-after-2014-before-panthers-release/

[heel31ok]

6 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Steve Smith said he planned to retire after the 2014 season and his release re-lit his fire.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steve-smith-was-going-to-retire-after-2014-before-panthers-release/

and was the beginning of the end for gman...

[MHS831]

You have to watch film (not tv) to understand his impact.  Having said that, here are 3 lines of thought that supports letting Star walk:

1. We do not step down on offense by signing a DT and letting Norwell walk.  Offense needs improvement, and Norwell might be the best and most consistent player on offense.  You pay him.  Good vs the run, good vs. the pass.  Give him Turner money.

2.  Butler weighs 330 lbs.and is not a good fit at the 3 technique.  They want him to move to NT.  Furthermore, Gettlemen knew that he would not be able to sign both Star and KK, so he knew he could give Star a fifth year deal--re-sign KK, then move Butler into Star's spot when he is gone. 

3.  Taking the previous points into consideration, Butler gives the NT position more pass  rush. 

Star is a good player, but he wants to live out west (I think, based on a comment as a rookie) and will certainly shop himself in free agency.  Norwell wants to stay here.  Norwell is the choice, if there is a choice.  Personally, I would rather spend the Star money on a WR or DE.