Why do casual football fans blame Cam instead of Ron for this mess?

[thefuzz]

We have been below average on Primetime games in Cam's career.

Cam does't put up eye popping numbers consistently.

Ron won COY twice, and stupid fans think that Pro Bowls, rings, and what not make you a better player.

Many outspoken/loud/confident QB's are hated outside of their fanbase.  Especially when you don't win consistently.

People are dumb.

[Darvinsun]

Cam could leave the Panthers and win a ring. Ron could leave the Panthers and win a ring. I just don't see it happening with Ron bc his style of play does not match well with Cams style. Ron wants a game manager thats not Cam at least it wasn' t before the shoulder injury. With the talent that Ron has had 2015 was his time but right now as the game is being played it has passed him by. The defense will eventually catch up to the offense but Luke and Cam will not have time on their side. I want to win now but that option may be gone as well. Cam I think usually plays well on Monday night games. This yr injury got the best of him. Cam has performed decent for what he has had to work with. The only other QB that does well with less is the other cocky QB that has all the rings Tom Brady who I also like. The  Mahomes, Watson, Big Ben, Rodgers, even Drew Brews all had decent wrs and some that they were with for a number of yrs and built a rapport with who has Cam had.

 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Hammerin'Cam1 said:

Your opinion somewhat matters around here. I'm pretty much trying to debunk the myth, around here, that you know what you're talking about.

When the 49ers hired Lynch as GM and Shanahan as head coach, everybody pretty much agreed it they were both A+ hirings. It's now been two years and they haven't done anything. Even two home run hirings like Lynch/Shanahan were bad their first two years ... but when people want to trash Rivera and Hurney they bring up their first two years as evidence that they aren't fit for the job.

Listen to Greg Olsen - "..I feel like this year was a huge disappointment, I don't think anybody in this locker room would say otherwise, I don't think any of the coaches would say otherwise, I think that's a pretty consistent narrative that everybody has shared, uhm, but to think we would get better by making rash changes, I think, would be, it's the easy thing, I think that's very emotional, I think that's very, every time people struggle the immediate reaction is, there's gotta be someone better, you know, a guy drops a pass, play the next guy, a quarterback throws a pick, play the backup. I think that's sports, I think sports, everybody always thinks the grass is always greener, but I think around here we've shown our stability has allowed us to be, you know, relatively consistent, you know, we're talking a team that's one year removed from an 11 win season, so, this has not been a prolonged period of failure, I think it's been one year of failure, and I think that's fair.."

When you state your opinion you always leave out any key information like quotes or anything meaningful. What Greg Olsen said is what I believe. Greg Olsen is always extremely candid so take your "..players historically have backed poor coaches.." and shove it, because the reason ESPN wanted Olsen to replace Gruden is because, like Gruden was, Olsen is as candid as they come. He is a no bullshit kind of person so I take his opinion for a lot more than I do you. Too many people see self-proclaimed "Football Historian" and the post count and think your take is knowledgeable.

The fact that you actually care whether people listen to what I say or not tells me a lot.

As for the other stuff, Lynch wasn't treated as a "home run" hire. He was actually questioned a lot (I know I did) because he has no personal experience at all. He went from being a commentator to being a general manager. The last guy to do that was Matt Millen.

As to the notion that Olson is "candid", please! Olson's never been the type to throw a coach, teammate or pretty much anybody else under the bus.

[Gucceland]

On 12/27/2018 at 1:40 PM, Mr. Scot said:

And if you're satisfied with "good", that's fine.

I'm not.

And for the record, there were people who thought John Fox would go on to glory elsewhere too. Didn't happen.

I got Rivera as a top 10 coach...not sure if there are any better coaches available unless we take a flyer on a coordinator....  

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Gucceland said:

I got Rivera as a top 10 coach...not sure if there are any better coaches available unless we take a flyer on a coordinator....  

Rivera minus a GM that can counter his deficiencies is barely even a top 15 coach, if that.

Dump Marty Hurney and get somebody better in here to work with Ron and then we can talk.

[Gucceland]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Rivera minus a GM that can counter his deficiencies is barely even a top 15 coach, if that.

Dump Marty Hurney and get somebody better in here to work with Ron and then we can talk.

Yeah...Hurney needs to go...again...and permanently.

Now this is going to sound stupid...but I really believe Rivera and the Panthers competed well even while losing...it's not like Rivera could bench an injured Cam due to the watered down NFC playoff race..but when you have a QB that doesn't practice and can't throw 20 yards...you're basically handicapped.  If you look at these losses...the Panthers were in every game except the Steelers game and could have won...if Cam could complete a pass or two.  I just don't see this as being Riveras fault or Cams...I see it as being shitty circumstances and now the Panthers have to address the QB position...they can not sit and hope Cam recovers. 

[Sgt Schultz]

17 minutes ago, Gucceland said:

I got Rivera as a top 10 coach...not sure if there are any better coaches available unless we take a flyer on a coordinator....  

I wouldn't place him that high, but I also don't think he is 33rd out of 32, like a lot of people seem to.

Place Rivera with the Bears, Jaguars, Ravens, Vikings, Titans, or Cowboys and he may look like a genius.  These are teams who, for better or worse, are defense-first teams and their rosters are mostly built that way (the Cowboys are sort of an exception and have performed that way, but may not have been built that way).  Their offenses generally need to only hold their own to win (Jags has not this year).

We have won or lost under Rivera based on our defensive standing in points against and yards against.  That is his strength and his style.  Years that we won, we usually moved up the ratings in those areas.  Years that we didn't, like 2018, we moved down.

That's who he is.  The extreme version of that was Buddy Ryan in Philadelphia, who viewed offense as something that was on the field while the defense was not.  His answer to offensive philosophy was "we have Randall Cunningham, Keith Byers, and Keith Jackson."  Rivera isn't that one-sided, and right now the Panthers arguably have more productive weapons on offense than defense (although have holes on both sides).

Rivera is a decent to good HC who may just be in the wrong situation now. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Sgt Schultz said:

I wouldn't place him that high, but I also don't think he is 33rd out of 32, like a lot of people seem to.

Place Rivera with the Bears, Jaguars, Ravens, Vikings, Titans, or Cowboys and he may look like a genius.  These are teams who, for better or worse, are defense-first teams and their rosters are mostly built that way (the Cowboys are sort of an exception and have performed that way, but may not have been built that way).  Their offenses generally need to only hold their own to win (Jags has not this year).

We have won or lost under Rivera based on our defensive standing in points against and yards against.  That is his strength and his style.  Years that we won, we usually moved up the ratings in those areas.  Years that we didn't, like 2018, we moved down.

That's who he is.  The extreme version of that was Buddy Ryan in Philadelphia, who viewed offense as something that was on the field while the defense was not.  His answer to offensive philosophy was "we have Randall Cunningham, Keith Byers, and Keith Jackson."  Rivera isn't that one-sided, and right now the Panthers arguably have more productive weapons on offense than defense (although have holes on both sides).

Rivera is a decent to good HC who may just be in the wrong situation now. 

Ryan was a mentor to Rivera.

I'm of the belief that Rivera got his "4 or 5 plays" philosophy from Ryan. Back when he had Randall Cunningham, Ryan believed all that was necessary to win was a few big plays from Cunningham and his defense would take care of the rest.

It didn't work back then either.