Drafttek Mock Draft (April 17th)

[kungfoodude]

24 minutes ago, Panthers8969 said:

Just curious, when people say upside, does that just mean they tested well? It seems people only say athletic freaks/ combine warriors have upside, which is proven false. You don’t have to dominate the combine to have upside. CFs tape shows upside 

Those combine freaks and otherwordly athletes have a naturally high ceiling because no matter how much technique you can teach, you can't teach being a ridiculous, freakish athlete. So, if the skill levels and technique were equal for Ferrell and Sweat, there is no question Sweat would be the far, far better player just simply due to the extra bend, quickness, speed, etc that Sweat has. But, it's rarer still to be that level of elite athlete and also be stellar technically, because they usually can get away with being much bigger/faster/stronger throughout HS and even college. 

That is why you see so many evaluators and analysts talk about Ferrell being a "low ceiling, high floor" guy. He already has lots of attributes that should allow him to be an early contributor in the NFL, whereas guys like Sweat, Gary, etc. are pretty raw. They are going to need to work quite a bit to be where Ferrell is technically and fundamentally. 

If we do indeed end up Ferrell, I would expect to see him end up being a 5-8 sacks/season guy that is outstanding in run support and capable of starting at DE for 8-10 years. If my projection of him ends up being accurate, I don't see why anyone would be particularly mad about that since we are sitting at #16.

[kungfoodude]

11 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Upside comes with guys that have all the athletic ability in the world that people feel could get better with further coaching and development. If your just a technician and your day 1 ready what are you gonna improve on? Most of the time you either have the god given ability and improve on stuff like technique. That’s what coaching is for. What’s with the com one warriors label as well, most of these guys have been playing football all their lives but because they test well they are combine warriors?  

The truest rule to football I have ever heard is the only thing you can’t teach is god given ability. Give me the guy with god given ability and a coach to bring the rest out of him.

 

Well the counter argument to that would be that quite a few of those guys that haven't improved technically at the point in which they are being drafted(which would usually be at least 3 years in a college program) have probably not been lacking in coaching. Especially at these football factory schools, you have ample opportunity to get that kind of instruction. And you have the ability to improve on all of those skills on your own time even when you are restricted by NCAA rules. 

So, if you are still being regarded as a guy that has great "potential" but haven't really realized it, are you that good of a prospect? Sometimes those guys suffer from being great athletes without the drive to be great football players.

[heel31ok]

4 hours ago, FakePlasticTrees said:

Ferrell did not run the 40 at the combine or his pro day. To me, that screams red flag. It probably means that he was going to run in the 4.7 or 4.8 range. Personally, I would pass. However, I get the feeling that he will be there at 16 in part because he did not run the 40. I just hope someone more enticing is there.

Id take 4.7 all day

[poorboysrev]

11 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

Id take 4.7 all day

Yep...how many times is defensive end running that far ? Ferrell’s got them long arms and violent hands. To me he’s the kuechly of  this draft...not the sexy pick but probably the best football player

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Well the counter argument to that would be that quite a few of those guys that haven't improved technically at the point in which they are being drafted(which would usually be at least 3 years in a college program) have probably not been lacking in coaching. Especially at these football factory schools, you have ample opportunity to get that kind of instruction. And you have the ability to improve on all of those skills on your own time even when you are restricted by NCAA rules. 

So, if you are still being regarded as a guy that has great "potential" but haven't really realized it, are you that good of a prospect? Sometimes those guys suffer from being great athletes without the drive to be great football players.

I mean if your going to make that case you have to be open to all possibilities. Athletes such as the ones in question have been so use to being the best player on the field and able to dominate with said tools why learn anything... Athletes with the gifts such as Cam never needed to develop other weapons because they were so gifted otherwise. Also to compare NFL coaching facilities,a guy dedicated to every area of you body being a money making machine is much different than college. College is something they do just to get to the NFL.It's fun..they go to class drink and party. At that point it because a job. Many of these guys will continue to rely on these gifts until they run into the brick wall that is the NFL and everyone is as gifted as they are. At that point they are forced to either get better or fail out of what they set there lifes goal on. Thats why it's different than just why didnt they get better at a 3 year program.

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, poorboysrev said:

Yep...how many times is defensive end running that far ? Ferrell’s got them long arms and violent hands. To me he’s the kuechly of  this draft...not the sexy pick but probably the best football player

Your crazy to compare that to Kuechly. Luke ran a 4.5 in his combine, 3rd out of all linebackers. He wasn't some combine flunky he displayed rare tools. He was the complete package, a slam dunk. That is not the case here.

[poorboysrev]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

Your crazy to compare that to Kuechly. Luke ran a 4.5 in his combine, 3rd out of all linebackers. He wasn't some combine flunky he displayed rare tools. He was the complete package, a slam dunk. That is not the case here.

Wasn’t really going into numbers... we had a higher pick, so of course his numbers should be better. Was simply referring to the fact that many panther’s  fans(myself included) were very underwhelmed by the pick at the time

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, poorboysrev said:

Wasn’t really going into numbers... we had a higher pick, so of course his numbers should be better. Was simply referring to the fact that many panther’s  fans(myself included) were very underwhelmed by the pick at the time

Yeah but, frankly, that was most of the fanbase being idiots. It had nothing to do with Luke's talent level or what his evaluations were. Panthers fans thought we didn't need a LB and it was a dumb pick. 

[micnificent28]

4 hours ago, Panthers8969 said:

Just curious, when people say upside, does that just mean they tested well? It seems people only say athletic freaks/ combine warriors have upside, which is proven false. You don’t have to dominate the combine to have upside. CFs tape shows upside 

Here's an example of when people use "upside" 

Safety

Juan Thornhill, Virginia

What do NFL teams love most in a prospect? Athleticism and versatility. Thornhill has both. He played cornerback and safety for the Cavaliers, picking off 13 passes in his career. And he finished first among safeties in the vertical leap (44 inches) and broad jump (141 inches) at the combine, where he also ran a 4.42 40. He has tremendous upside.

Projection: Second round

per-Mel Kiper.

[Keeksneak59]

9 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

Ask every Gm in the league that had Sweat around 16-20 but after 4.41 top 6. It’s more a indicator of athletic ability or explosion. Allows more flexibility, chase down ball carriers and scrambling QBs, its what allowed peppers to curl out into the flats to play zone converage. Let’s not act like this has no application for ability at the position.

 

Sweat looks very robotic out of his stance sometimes and I wonder if he'd actually be better suited as a stand up 3-4 rushing lb than a DE. Ferrell on the other hand looks smooth as butter on a lot of plays. They're big and rangy kids, already something you can't really teach. Ferrell has better bgo ball get off for sure, if you watch some of his plays it's over before the offense knows what happened. He rushes before the QB even gets the ball into his hands on some plays. That snap timing is impeccable at times. Watch his film for yourself and you'll see. 

[Keeksneak59]

Also Ferrell's pursuit skills at following the ball is why GMs love him. I'm no scout or anything but I do watch the tapes. He'll be a nightmare for the O line in run blocking. Plus the way he moves his body all elusive-like to avoid being blocked to make a play in trash is nice too. 

[FakePlasticTrees]

5 hours ago, heel31ok said:

Id take 4.7 all day

That was just my guess. 4.7 is about the median combine speed for DEs. For a middle of first round pick such a speed would be worrying.

[FakePlasticTrees]

57 minutes ago, Keeksneak59 said:

Also Ferrell's pursuit skills at following the ball is why GMs love him. I'm no scout or anything but I do watch the tapes. He'll be a nightmare for the O line in run blocking. Plus the way he moves his body all elusive-like to avoid being blocked to make a play in trash is nice too. 

From NFL.com:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/clelin-ferrell?id=32194645-5255-8663-cd04-9e42913c7a38

Overview

Highly productive 4-3 defensive end with prototypical size, length and strength to offer early help against both the run and pass. Playing next to NFL talent in all three years certainly made things easier for Ferrell, but his edge-setting and rush plan improvements are self-made. His rush can be leggy and gradual and might not get home as often in the pros, but NFL coaching might further unleash his physical traits and turn him into a star. Ferrell is a complete defender and steady talent who could start early for a 4-3 stop unit.

Strengths

• Prototypical frame with broad shoulders and long arms
• Posted 36.5 tackles for loss and 21 sacks since 2017
• Excellent snap reaction and is first off the ball
• Slippery and gets skinny into gaps to disrupt
• Plays behind his long arms
• Traits to punch and control blocker's frame in setting edge
• Plays with toughness and unloads shoulder into leads and pulls
• Skilled hands for quick wins and sheds
• Projectable power rusher on next level
• Talent to convert early leads in the pass rep into sacks
• Long, flailing arms with violent hands
• Targets tackle's inside or outside hand when attacking punch
• Base to drive through redirect blocks and squeeze pocket
• Low, smooth clockwise spin move has potential
• Attentive in redirecting tight ends into routes

Weaknesses

• Below-average fluidity and agility in movement
• Unable to sustain early burst at the top of the rush
• Hands and feet not always in unison
• Inside moves and transitions can be mechanical and awkward
• Average burst to close
• Rush speed takes a big hit in the fourth quarter
• Hands linger and lack suddenness
• Struggles to gather weight and veer off path to tail pocket-climbers
• Limited lateral quickness and change of direction in space
• Could use better knee bend
• Suspect anchor against angle blocks
• Slow to unglue once tackles capture his frame
• Marginal open-field tackling ability

[JARROD]

5 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

Your crazy to compare that to Kuechly. Luke ran a 4.5 in his combine, 3rd out of all linebackers. He wasn't some combine flunky he displayed rare tools. He was the complete package, a slam dunk. That is not the case here.

We are also making up numbers because he didn't run.  We don't know hes a 4.7 guy. Hes also a good bit heavier than what Kuechly was.  Still, what will his detractors say if he runs a 4.5?  Still hate?  On most mocks hes still going before our pick, so hes a group census top 20.

Ferrell has displayed some good "rare" tools on his videos playing football games which is much more important than in workout shorts.