Gettleman is getting absolutely destroyed by national media... STILL

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, GoobyPls said:

We get it man, you love Gettleman. You think he invented football and your still butthurt they fired him. All you can do at this point is make excuses for his failures 

What's hysterical here is that I specifically commented in an earlier post about how stupid this type of response is and why people say it, yet here you are.

Hilarious

[MasterAwesome]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Gettleman did benefit from good players that Hurney left behind. He also was saddled with bad ones and a horrible cap situation. That's why crediting his success to Marty Hurney is stupid.

Marty Hurney likewise benefited from good players that Dave Gettleman left behind. He was also saddled with problems like Matt Kalil. But as before, any success or failure from 2018 forward is Hurney's alone.

The 2017 season is the one oddity because all of the offseason work was done by Gettleman. Crediting Hurney for that success would be like having one member of a wrestling tag team do all the work in a match, having the second guy tag in just to make the pin and then saying it was the second guy who won it.

Bottom Line: I want this team to win championships, and I don't trust the combination of Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera to do it.

It's not that complicated.

I know your stance is not that complicated, I’m just trying to explore it beyond the surface level of “I don’t trust Hurney”. For example, you give credence to the different coach/GM dynamics like Ron + Gettleman and Ron + Hurney. However, you’re not considering GM/owner dynamics like Hurney + Richardson vs. Hurney + Tepper. I think we can all agree that Richardson was a pretty terrible owner and had a tendency to meddle based on his emotions. Is it possible in your eyes that Hurney + Tepper could be a successful GM/owner combo? Consistent across every coach and GM in our franchise’s history (yes, even Gettleman) has been our astonishingly pitiful streak of never having back-to-back winning seasons. Who has been the common denominator for all those years?

I asked if you think Hurney is making smarter moves this time around, but you didn’t answer. If you think he is making smarter moves, then I don’t think the justification of “Hurney sucked 10 years ago, therefore our future is doomed to repeat itself under his management” is fitting. I think even most of Hurney’s most ardent detractors agree that he has managed this team much more competently this time around.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Gettleman has proven that he cannot win without Rivera.

Sure did prove that both he and the Panthers could win without Steve Smith though 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I know your stance is not that complicated, I’m just trying to explore it beyond the surface level of “I don’t trust Hurney”. For example, you give credence to the different coach/GM dynamics like Ron + Gettleman and Ron + Hurney. However, you’re not considering GM/owner dynamics like Hurney + Richardson vs. Hurney + Tepper. I think we can all agree that Richardson was a pretty terrible owner and had a tendency to meddle based on his emotions. Is it possible in your eyes that Hurney + Tepper could be a successful GM/owner combo? Consistent across every coach and GM in our franchise’s history (yes, even Gettleman) has been our astonishingly pitiful streak of never having back-to-back winning seasons. Who has been the common denominator for all those years?

I asked if you think Hurney is making smarter moves this time around, but you didn’t answer. If you think he is making smarter moves, then I don’t think the justification of “Hurney sucked 10 years ago, therefore our future is doomed to repeat itself under his management” is fitting. I think even most of Hurney’s most ardent detractors agree that he has managed this team much more competently this time around.

Moves he's made this time are still very much up in the air.

You've only got one full season under Hurney to judge by and that season was a loser. You can talk about mitigating circumstances, but then you'd also have to apply that to Gettleman's seasons as well. I understand those things, but I tend to set them aside in both cases.

As to the owner dynamic, David Tepper is still primarily a hedge fund manager. The only major football decision he can definitively be said to have been involved with is retaining Rivera and Hurney. That means the two of them have a lot of leeway. And thus, whether they succeed or fail, you can't put very much of that on Tepper.

[PootieNunu]

39 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

 

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Not only was he a 2nd round pick by our current "yes man" gm, he was then trotted out by our coach on a yearly basis.

Should show both of their incompetence, but Tepper decided to keep them another year. 

[Car123]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Sure did prove that both he and the Panthers could win without Steve Smith though 

After an embarrassing season.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Car123 said:

After an embarrassing season.

Followed by the best one in team history.

[MasterAwesome]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Moves he's made this time are still very much up in the air.

You've only got one full season under Hurney to judge by and that season was a loser. You can talk about mitigating circumstances, but then you'd also have to apply that to Gettleman's seasons as well. I understand those things, but I tend to set them aside in both cases.

As to the owner dynamic, David Tepper is still primarily a hedge fund manager. The only major football decision he can definitively be said to have been involved with is retaining Rivera and Hurney. That means the two of them have a lot of leeway. And thus, whether they succeed or fail, you can't put very much of that on Tepper.

I am very much a proponent of applying mitigating circumstances opposed to surface-level black and white metrics. I’m not sure what kind of mitigating circumstances you want to apply to Gettleman’s losing seasons, but I’m open to hearing a case for it. I think Gettleman’s losing seasons can largely be attributed to his own mishaps, i.e. the butchering of the Josh Norman situation in the 2016 offseason.

And I already stated how JR had a propensity to meddle in team affairs, therefore Tepper’s ownership is the epitome of addition by subtraction. The simple fact that Tepper allows the professionals to do their job without interfering is HUGE and cannot be understated.

[Car123]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Followed by the best one in team history.

Season was tainted thanks in large part to Gettleman's boy, Shula.

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Season was tainted thanks in large part to Gettleman's boy, Shula.

You're referring to the guy that Rivera stuck his neck out for after Gettleman suggested he be fired? 

To be fair though, it wasn't Shula who decided that the game plan didn't need to be switched up for the Super Bowl. It was Rivera.

[Mr. Scot]

While I'm thinking of it, a little commentary about the coaching / GM thing...

Ron Rivera's profile as a head coach is that he's a really good X's and O's guy (on defense anyway) and a good motivator. Unfortunately when it comes to personnel evaluation, whether it be players or coaches, he tends to be sh-t. He's too loyal to guys he's chosen, favors "try hard" players over more talented ones and hangs on to veterans out of loyalty even when it's clear that age has caught up to them.

Gettleman had enough football knowledge and savvy of his own to be able to recognize those times when Rivera was full of sh-t. Hurney doesn't, which means Rivera has more power to affect personnel choices now than he did under Gettleman.

Not a good thing.

One positive on that front: The addition of Norv Turner helps. And because of their relationship, Turner has the ability to call bullsh-t on Rivera  even when Hurney doesn't.

I still don't think it's enough for us to produce a consistent winner, but it's something.

[Car123]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're referring to the guy that Rivera stuck his neck out for after Gettleman suggested he be fired? 

To be fair though, it wasn't Shula who decided that the game plan didn't need to be switched up for the Super Bowl. It was Rivera.

Where's your source?

Gettleman brought his boy to New York.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Car123 said:

Where's your source?

Gettleman brought his boy to New York.

Person, Voth and others have all mentioned it.

And Shurmur is the one who brought Shula to New York, even that only as a glorified quarterback coach and only after his first two choices said no.

Gettleman has repeatedly said that he won't ever overrule his head coach on staff choices, only that he makes suggestions. It was said to be a "suggestion" of his that Richard Rodgers no longer coach special teams, but even there rather than fire him, Rivera just reassigned him.

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, tiger7_88 said:

 

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Yeah Hurney has a well-documented, terrible drafting history outside the first round...but how can you say that with a straight face when Gettleman’s 1st and 2nd round picks from 2014 are on the verge of washing out of the league lol.

Both sucked at drafting...I hate to break it to you.