Changing the coaching and GM philosophy

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't know how much sense it makes to just replace one, TBH. I think Hurney has done a decent job in round two but honestly he is probably no more than an average NFL GM at best. 

I'd rather have a completely clean slate and start to rebuild that front office and coaching staff at the same time.

All the highest quality head coaching candidates will be pursued the moment they can by all teams pushing for a new HC.

Other than the Panthers.

Because first we will have to pursue a new GM, then a Head Coach.  So by the time we get a GM hired, all the "top tier" HC candidates that most people are after will be picked.  We will get the run of the guys passed over.

Thats how I see it at least.  If we pursue both in the off season we will have to hope a high quality head coach candidate got passed over by other teams also looking for a HC. 

[kungfoodude]

Just now, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

All the highest quality head coaching candidates will be pursued the moment they can by all teams pushing for a new HC.

Other than the Panthers.

Because first we will have to pursue a new GM, then a Head Coach.  So by the time we get a GM hired, all the "top tier" HC candidates that most people are after will be picked.  We will get the run of the guys passed over.

Thats how I see it at least.  If we pursue both in the off season we will have to hope a high quality head coach candidate got passed over by other teams also looking for a HC. 

You can always make that GM post open up earlier. After all, we are about to be eliminated from playoff contention. Let's say we lose Sunday, what would stop Tepper from firing Hurney and Ron and starting the process for next season?

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I can say for certain that I will turn on him if he cuts a healthy Cam(assuming Cam would be willing to return) for this last year of his deal. 

Now, that said, winning cures all ills in sports, so if we start winning in 2020, 2021, etc.....all will be quickly forgiven.

Factoring in a lot of things, including the comments quoted by Josh Klein on the Roaring Riot page, I feel like it's safe to say that Tepper is prepared to embrace a rebuild.

I would see letting Newton go as part of that, though it's also a matter of judgment. Rodrigue reported that Tepper was already questioning the wisdom of extending Newton when he first bought the Panthers. It's not like the last two years have done much to assure him.

The question then becomes do you try to rebound quickly or do you take the time to try to build for the long term?

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You can always make that GM post open up earlier. After all, we are about to be eliminated from playoff contention. Let's say we lose Sunday, what would stop Tepper from firing Hurney and Ron and starting the process for next season?

Per this article that outlines the NY Giants GM search of last year

https://www.nj.com/giants/2017/12/giants_general_manager_search_what_are_nfl_rules_f.html

Quote

Like with a head coaching search, the Giants cannot interview any individuals currently employed by other teams until after the regular season is over. Unlike the head coaching search, the rules for securing the ability to interview those candidates can be trickier.

So it seems like unless our current GM candidate is not currently working, we wouldn't be able to jump start the process.

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You can always make that GM post open up earlier. After all, we are about to be eliminated from playoff contention. Let's say we lose Sunday, what would stop Tepper from firing Hurney and Ron and starting the process for next season?

You could also potentially already have your next GM in mind.

(not that we'd ever be guilty of tampering or anything) 

And while it's unusual, it's not unprecedented for an owner to do the process of hiring a coach and GM themselves simultaneously.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I would see letting Newton go as part of that, though it's also a matter of judgment. Rodrigue reported that Tepper was already questioning the wisdom of extending Newton when he first bought the Panthers. It's not like the last two years have done much to assure him.

I see this said a lot and I think its missing one major context issue.

I am pretty sure that Tepper never questioned extending Newton.

He "questioned" giving Newton a top tier top of the line contract.

Minor, but extremely important difference.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I see this said a lot and I think its missing one major context issue.

I am pretty sure that Tepper never questioned extending Newton.

He "questioned" giving Newton a top tier top of the line contract.

Minor, but extremely important difference.

Do you think it's realistic to expect to be able to extend Newton without giving him a top-tier contract?

You could certainly make the offer but do you really believe he'd accept it?

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Do you think it's realistic to expect to be able to extend Newton without giving him a top-tier contract?

You could certainly make the offer but do you really believe he'd accept it?

Hey.  I am just trying to keep things accurate.

I think its completely reasonable that Newton would not expect a 40m/year contract.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Factoring in a lot of things, including the comments quoted by Josh Klein on the Roaring Riot page, I feel like it's safe to say that Tepper is prepared to embrace a rebuild.

I would see letting Newton go as part of that, though it's also a matter of judgment. Rodrigue reported that Tepper was already questioning the wisdom of extending Newton when he first bought the Panthers. It's not like the last two years have done much to assure him.

The question then becomes do you try to rebound quickly or do you take the time to try to build for the long term?

I would question the wisdom of not gambling on bringing back Cam for this last year, especially if that foot heals up. That literally just seems like a clear cut low risk, high reward proposition, IMO.

But if he is ready to embrace the long rebuild, I would think it's time to move a guy like Luke and get some picks and probably consider trading CMC unless they view him as a core component of a pretty quick turnaround. That's one thing I think a lot of Panthers fans are about to struggle with, it's not very wise in the current NFL to tie a bunch of money up in a RB. CMC is going to warrant "best in the NFL" kind of money and I am not sure if that is going to happen here. If the plan go into long term rebuilding, it doesn't make much sense to not basically burn it to the ground. We will have no QB, little to no assets on the OL(unless Little or Daley pan out), little to no assets in the WR corps(unless DJ Moore pans out), a best in the NFL caliber RB, little to no assets at TE, a couple of gifted young pass rushers on the DL, two valuable LB's but one with an expiring deal, a couple of valuable young CB's and little to no assets at S. 

So, if you are gonna burn it down, the next couple of years is the time to do it. Admittedly, when you look at the team on paper, the roster looks a lot like one that is more suited to a long rebuild than a quick turnaround. Some of our better players are older guys or short term rentals. Make no mistake, this team was built to win now.

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

Per this article that outlines the NY Giants GM search of last year

https://www.nj.com/giants/2017/12/giants_general_manager_search_what_are_nfl_rules_f.html

So it seems like unless our current GM candidate is not currently working, we wouldn't be able to jump start the process.

You can jump start it by narrowing that list of candidates down and reaching out to them about interest. We both know that although they cannot have a formal interview with the candidates, plenty of research, ground work and initial contact can be made behind the scenes. Which, admittedly we can do that without canning Hurney, as well. 

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

But if he is ready to embrace the long rebuild, I would think it's time to move a guy like Luke and get some picks and probably consider trading CMC unless they view him as a core component of a pretty quick turnaround.

Basically this.  If we are rebuilding those two *must* go.  Probably DJ Moore, Curtis Samuel.  Basically the Dolphins approach.  Anyone at all with trade value? Gone.

 

 

 

[kungfoodude]

22 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I see this said a lot and I think its missing one major context issue.

I am pretty sure that Tepper never questioned extending Newton.

He "questioned" giving Newton a top tier top of the line contract.

Minor, but extremely important difference.

And, he didn't take an onerous contract last time. He is peaking currently as the seventh highest paid QB in the league. 

Edit: His salary next year would be 14th in the league, currently.

[kungfoodude]

Jared Goff	Rams	$36,042,682	$31,042,682
Matt Ryan	Falcons	$33,550,000	$20,500,000
Ben Roethlisberger	Steelers	$33,500,000	$21,000,000
Aaron Rodgers	Packers	$32,600,000	$21,100,000
Matt Stafford	Lions	$31,500,000	$21,500,000
Kirk Cousins	Vikings	$31,000,000	$30,000,000
Russell Wilson	Seahawks	$31,000,000	$18,000,000
Jimmy Garoppolo	49ers	$26,600,000	$25,200,000
Joe Flacco	Broncos	$23,650,000	$20,250,000
Nick Foles	Jaguars	$21,875,000	$15,875,000
Jacoby Brissett	Colts	$21,500,000	$15,000,000
Derek Carr	Raiders	$21,500,000	$19,000,000
Alex Smith	Redskins	$21,400,000	$16,000,000
Cam Newton	Panthers	$21,100,000	$19,100,000

[run-run-pass-punt]

Lots of ways to win football games. I just want a group of organizational decision makers that are adaptable to both playing to the strengths of your roster and to the changes happening within the league as it evolves.

And personally I love defense, but in today's NFL, I think you're better served having a heavier focus on the other side of the ball.