Can we please start Kyle Allen this week so we have a shot at beating the saints!

[Black&Blue]

I wish they would start Allen, just as I wish they would start and play every player that gives us the best chance of winning. 

 

Once you care more about the draft than the actual games, you're no longer a real football fan.  You've succumbed to the spectacle of the NFL.  Having that attitude against a rival that's playing for a bye is especially abhorrent.  

[Rags]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:31 PM, Harbingers said:

Because it’s by far his worst draft and that’s saying something. 

Are you a millineal because you have a terrible case of short sightedness.

 

[TheRed]

39 minutes ago, Black&Blue said:

I wish they would start Allen, just as I wish they would start and play every player that gives us the best chance of winning. 

 

Once you care more about the draft than the actual games, you're no longer a real football fan.  You've succumbed to the spectacle of the NFL.  Having that attitude against a rival that's playing for a bye is especially abhorrent.  

If we're talking about only starting players that give us the best chance to win then neither Kyle Allen or Will Grier should be in the conversation at the rate they are turning the ball over. So do you actually want to win or are you one of those player only fans we've heard so much about?

[Black&Blue]

9 minutes ago, TheRed said:

So do you actually want to win or are you one of those player only fans we've heard so much about?

 

[TheRed]

7 minutes ago, Black&Blue said:

 

Does Kyle Allen give the Panthers the best chance to win?

Yes or no?

[TheRed]

The only argument I can see for starting Allen the final game is if we are intentionally tanking because it really doesn't get much worse than 15 interceptions in 8 starts.

[Black&Blue]

17 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Does Kyle Allen give the Panthers the best chance to win?

Yes or no?

Yes.

 

[mav1234]

2 hours ago, TheRed said:

Does Kyle Allen give the Panthers the best chance to win?

Yes or no?

Relative to the rest of our currently healthy and starting QBs?  Yes, he does.  Simply put, he is a better option than Grier to win the game, based on what we have seen so far, but that doesn't mean a whole lot all things considered, and we should stick with Grier to see what he has.

[MasterAwesome]

2 hours ago, TheRed said:

The only argument I can see for starting Allen the final game is if we are intentionally tanking because it really doesn't get much worse than 15 interceptions in 8 starts.

Grier’s stats extrapolated over 8 games is 0 TDs and 24 INTs...if you really wanna flaunt some statistics.

[mav1234]

2 hours ago, TheRed said:

The only argument I can see for starting Allen the final game is if we are intentionally tanking because it really doesn't get much worse than 15 interceptions in 8 starts.

I mean, it did get worse with Will Grier.  Allen threw 17 TDs and 15 INTs (about 3.3% of his throws... plus an awful number of fumbles)  in his 12 starts.  Grier threw 3 INTs in his only start (or about an INT on ~7% of his throws!).  Not surprising numbers for either young player, given how bad the team is.  It doesn't mean either of them is any kind of answer, but there's no way you watched last week's game and said, "Yup, Grier is definitely better at this point in his career than Kyle Allen is right now."  I came away knowing we really need an answer at QB for next year (even as a backup if Cam comes back 100%) and it is unlikely to be either Grier or Allen. Neither of them were good, but Allen unquestionably moved the offense better and made more difficult throws.  

[TheRed]

11 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Relative to the rest of our currently healthy and starting QBs?  Yes, he does.  Simply put, he is a better option than Grier to win the game, based on what we have seen so far, but that doesn't mean a whole lot all things considered, and we should stick with Grier to see what he has.

 

9 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Grier’s stats extrapolated over 8 games is 0 TDs and 24 INTs...if you really wanna flaunt some statistics.

 

5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I mean, it did get worse with Will Grier.  Allen threw 17 TDs and 15 INTs (about 3.3% of his throws... plus an awful number of fumbles)  in his 12 starts.  Grier threw 3 INTs in his only start.  Not surprising numbers for either young player, given how bad the team is.  It doesn't mean either of them is any kind of answer, but there's no way you watched last week's game and said, "Yup, Grier is definitely better at this point in his career than Kyle Allen is right now."  I came away knowing we really need an answer at QB for next year (even as a backup if Cam comes back 100%) and it is unlikely to be either Grier or Allen. Neither of them were good, but Allen unquestionably moved the offense better and made more difficult throws.  

Grier is older than Allen and further behind him development wise by a substantial margin. We drafted him in the third round so he had to get in there and show us unequivocally where he is at right now so we can move forward accordingly in the draft.

Neither of these guys look to be the long term answer in any capacity if we are pulling no punches and being brutally honest. If Cam is indeed done we are going to be throwing whatever we can find behind center at the wall to see what sticks for the foreseeable future. It would be fantastic if people didn't get hung up on every feel good story lunchpail carrying gym rat we throw behind our struggling OL from here on out. We do not have the luxury of time considering we are the worst team in our division and probably the worst in the league at this moment.

If the guy at QB isn't getting it done, next man up. It's as simple as that.

[Carl Spackler]

33 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I mean, it did get worse with Will Grier.  Allen threw 17 TDs and 15 INTs (about 3.3% of his throws... plus an awful number of fumbles)  in his 12 starts.  Grier threw 3 INTs in his only start (or about an INT on ~7% of his throws!).  Not surprising numbers for either young player, given how bad the team is.  It doesn't mean either of them is any kind of answer, but there's no way you watched last week's game and said, "Yup, Grier is definitely better at this point in his career than Kyle Allen is right now."  I came away knowing we really need an answer at QB for next year (even as a backup if Cam comes back 100%) and it is unlikely to be either Grier or Allen. Neither of them were good, but Allen unquestionably moved the offense better and made more difficult throws.  

It’s got to be impossible to blame any QB on an interception stemming from his WR getting the ball stolen out of his hands. I think if you solely watch the box score, sure, he threw three — but blaming him for all three is unwise and speaks to some level of bias.

Not all of Allen’s turnovers were his fault either — but by week 15, he was hitting corners and safeties in stride. Grier had only one turnover until garbage time when he decided to take some chances. 

In the midst of this Grier vs Allen debate, looking at Allen’s first-half stats in recent games, they’re worse than Grier’s was last week, sans Moore. He hasn’t really moved the ball much other than handing to McCaffrey, until we’re down 3 scores and he hits his check downs and runs one in to soothe Snake’s ego.

As an aside, neither guy will be our backup next season.  But I actually thought Grier was better in tougher throws (fourth down strike to Samuel was more accurate than anything Allen has thrown since October) but Allen is better in over-the-middle passes. Allen CAN throw better but he makes worse decisions and is a statue in the pocket. No way does his mobility approach Grier’s. 

[TheRed]

If we hire a new GM odds are neither Allen or Grier are on the roster next year regardless of what we decide with Cam. That's just how ass ugly 2019 has been, this has been an all time bad season. That kind of mediocrity brings with it many new faces. Our lack of quality QB depth biting us in the ass this year will also likely guarantee we will pursue a second capable option for the backup role regardless of who ultimately ends up being the starter.

[Kuechly&Moore]

2 minutes ago, TheRed said:

If we hire a new GM odds are neither Allen or Grier are on the roster next year regardless of what we decide with Cam. That's just how ass ugly 2019 has been, this has been an all time bad season. That kind of mediocrity brings with it many new faces. Our lack of quality QB depth biting us in the ass this year will also likely guarantee we will pursue a second capable option for the backup role regardless of who ultimately ends up being the starter.

You call this crap mediocrity? I don't think we could beat the Dolphins or Bengals right now.... We DID lose to the redskins.... this is the worst team in the NFL atm.