Panthers alumni answer questions about Cam Newton

[Jaxel]

Just now, rico6 said:

N0 BiAs gAiz

You can find 100 posts in the last 7 years where I defend Cam. To call me bias from a post in 2013 is a little insincere.

[Bytes]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

234 for Cam

232 for Wilson

Well pro football reference has them both at 232.3 per game. You can check. But say it is (which it's not).. again Wilson has 45 more TDs, 40 less INTs, 5 % better completion rate, a half yard better yards per attempt rate, are your really going to make the argument that they are comparable? 

[rico6]

1 minute ago, Jaxel said:

You can find 100 posts in the last 7 years where I defend Cam. To call me bias from a post in 2013 is a little insincere.

You said it, not me. But I edited my post, no harm done.

[Bytes]

20 minutes ago, beo said:

you are going sheerly off numbers, not off film, not off context, not factoring in these qbs supporting casts. looking at boxscores and then going "Oh wow, player X must be better than player Y" is something a 12 year old or someone who doesn't genuinely watch the games would do. in 2017 cam didn't have the best passing stats, but if you put it into context, you realize cam had practice squad garbage around him at receiver, his shoulder was nicked by this point and despite all of the drops and his throwing shoulder being banged up he still threw for 3.3k yards on 22 tds. was his completion percentage the best? of course not, he was obviously banged up and had no supporting cast. despite this, he still threw for nearly 350 yards in the wildcard game and you cannot watch that game and tell me the heroics cam put on despite his practice squad receivers and throwing shoulder weren't elite. 

in fact, every season since cam's breakout in 2015 he's been dealing with injuries due to a horrible offensive line, mismanagement by our staff, and on top of that, usually a bottom 5 WR core. if you put one of your precious golden boys into the situations cam has played in they'd get absolutely wrecked. much of that is on ron, shula, and our GMs for not building a proper team around him until it was too late. do you understand why going off sheerly numbers and boxscores for a player such as cam newton is disingenous now? the absolute heroics cam performed despite his circumstances in crucial games showed how great of a player he was. also, back to your original point about "comparing a qb to him", how do you compare players who have nothing in common? even russell wilson, the example you gave, plays nothing like cam if you watch them. the only thing they have in common is that theyre black and run sometimes, lol. russ by the way, while he did generally have a very bad oline, arguably worse than some of cams, still had very solid receiving options in lockett, baldwin, graham, metcalf, and even paul richardson was a solid #2 who woudlve been a clear upgrade over what cam was working with in his tenure here.

numbers are one of many factors that should be considered when evaulating a player. is production important? of course, but you also must look at what could hamper production. cam went for around 4,000 yards consistently despite his abhorrent supporting cast and being left in games due to injuries (16, 18, 19). cam at 70% with a messed up throwing shoulder drug this mediocre team to the playoffs in 2017, and threw for 350 yards in a playoff loss in which his wrs dropped two open touchdown passes. we saw how well he played with his messed up shoulder in the first half of 2018 in a new, less dinosaury offense,  until his shoulder was aggrevated even worse in week 9. how is that not elite? to me, cam newton is a sad story of a team mismanaging a generational talent at qb, and not giving him help until it was too late and the writing was clearly on the wall. 

Yeah because when I look at film I see a guy with god awful mechanics. And furthermore if you going to throw in coaching, WRs, RBs, O Lineman, Front Office, the weather, you might as well not have this discussion. Because you can say that about anyone who has had a marginal career. The only thing that matters is did you get it done. And Cam got it down about 59% of the time LOL!

 

[LinvilleGorge]

15 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Well pro football reference has them both at 232.3 per game. You can check. But say it is (which it's not).. again Wilson has 45 more TDs, 40 less INTs, 5 % better completion rate, a half yard better yards per attempt rate, are your really going to make the argument that they are comparable? 

Cam has 29041 career passing yards in 124 starts. That's 234.2 yards per game. 

Russell Wilson has 29734 career passing yards in 128 starts. That's 232.3 yards per game.

Go back and read. I specifically said I have never and will never make an argument that Cam is a better pure passer than Russell Wilson. I'm comparing them as overall QBs. You're the one who tries to continue to ignore any and all rushing stats making it a pure passing argument. Which, as I recall, is exactly what I said you'd do when the numbers ended up looking a lot differently than you anticipated.

Again, you're not only logically inconsistent with your arguments but you're downright intellectually dishonest.

[beo]

10 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Yeah because when I look at film I see a guy with god awful mechanics. And furthermore if you going to throw in coaching, WRs, RBs, O Lineman, Front Office, the weather, you might as well not have this discussion. Because you can say that about anyone who has had a marginal career. The only thing that matters is did you get it done. And Cam got it down about 59% of the time LOL!

 

ah, so you can't actually debunk my points. well thanks for throwing in the white flag early so that i don't have to waste my time responding.

 

 

 

 

[beo]

1 minute ago, Jaxel said:

Yeah man, that 1 wide receiver that averaged 900 yards per year quantifies as surrounded by weapons.

i never recall saying russell wilson was surrounded by weapons ( he certainly wasn't), but he definitely had better RECEIVERS than cam did. 14 tds for a receiver is no small feat, and he did those yards on extremely effecient catch percentages.

[Jaxel]

7 minutes ago, beo said:

i never recall saying russell wilson was surrounded by weapons ( he certainly wasn't), but he definitely had better RECEIVERS than cam did. 14 tds for a receiver is no small feat, and he did those yards on extremely effecient catch percentages.

I would agree on that. Even though I would argue the weapons Cam has had are equivalent to what Russell has had overall.

[Bytes]

30 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I made a simple error when compiling data while switching between screens. See, that's the difference between someone like me and someone like you. If I make a mistake, I'll own up to it. I don't try to move the goalposts all over the place in an exercise of mental gymnastics.

Don't pretend like you have any degrees from any reputable institutions of higher learning. Please, just stop. 

NO you made two. And one of them was pretty egregious when you mention Cam had a higher single season completion rating than Russell. And stop talking about what degrees you have, where you moving to, your credit rating while looking down on those who dont have a good one.  You are looking more like the materialistic person the world is becoming to hate. No one really cares. I will never talk about my personal life here. And I am not in a race with you. I judge myself against myself. Not you. Dont try to come after me. You know nothing about me. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Bytes said:

NO you made two. And one of them was pretty egregious when you mention Cam had a higher single season completion rating than Russell. And stop talking about what degrees you have, where you moving to, your credit rating while looking down on those who dont have a good one.  You are looking more like the materialistic person the world is becoming to hate. No one really cares. I will never talk about my personal life here. And I am not in a race with you. I judge myself against myself. Not you. Dont try to come after me. You know nothing about me. 

Oops. Someone got caught in a blatant lie claiming degrees and now he's mad and hurling insults.

 

[beo]

Just now, Jaxel said:

Fair enough, even though I would argue the recievers Cam had had are equivalent to what Russell has had overall.

ehh, cam hasnt nessicarily had bad options per se he's just had players in spots they shouldn't have been in. for example, ginn had no business being our #1 but he has done well in lesser roles as evidenced by 2016 and his stints in new orleans. lafell did fine in NE and cincy when he wasn't asked to be their #2. funchess shouldnt have gotten significant snaps as a 21 year old project player in 2015, etc etc. most of wilson's players fit into roles and had graham and baldwin to take the attention off them, with cam its just a strange jumbled up mismatch of parts that don't fit together. 2016 for example, is a hodgepodge of olsen, post acl tear benjamin who could get no seperation whatsoever (dez bryant effect), ginn who did better in his reduced role, and funchess still probably getting more snaps than he shouldve been.

[LinvilleGorge]

46 minutes ago, Bytes said:

You not 10 minutes ago made up some crap , made false statements and you want to talk to me about intellectual abilities? Now you all gretchen grammer on me too? You gonna resort to that?  I'll put my degrees up to yours any day of the week. 

Quoted for reference for when the goalposts start moving all over the place... again.

[Bytes]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Oops. Someone got caught in a blatant lie claiming degrees and now he's mad and hurling insults.

 

Dude did I say I didnt? I just wont post my personal stuff like you. Your are the one making insults not me. Again I am not in a race with you. You have no idea about where I live or what my life is like. Let it got man. 

[Jaxel]

1 minute ago, beo said:

ehh, cam hasnt nessicarily had bad options per se he's just had players in spots they shouldn't have been in. for example, ginn had no business being our #1 but he has done well in lesser roles as evidenced by 2016 and his stints in new orleans. lafell did fine in NE and cincy when he wasn't asked to be their #2. funchess shouldnt have gotten significant snaps as a 21 year old project player in 2015, etc etc. most of wilson's players fit into roles and had graham and baldwin to take the attention off them, with cam its just a strange jumbled up mismatch of parts that don't fit together. 2016 for example, is a hodgepodge of olsen, post acl tear benjamin who could get no seperation whatsoever (dez bryant effect), ginn who did better in his reduced role, and funchess still probably getting more snaps than he shouldve been.

Agreed, Russell has definitely had the benefit of working with a coach who had a strong offensive plan and know what he wants.