Shackling your quarterback

[PuntJake]

And that's Jake's fault, of course. Everything that goes wrong is.

no, but inaccurate passes over the receivers heads are his fault.

[Jon Snow]

I think that by now it is obvious that Matt Moore is not going to get the start this season and it is not because Fox is overly loyal. We have boo-koos of info on why Moore is not starting. Its the same reason Deangelo didn't start right away, Johnson will start over Anderson on Sunday, and why Jarrett was stuck behind Moose until his injury.

I would say it is apparent to all the fans that all of the guys listed above are or were more talented than the guys in front of them on the DC. I would also think that Fox knows these guys all have the talent. However the one thing they all have/had in common was that they all lack a serious work ethic to succeed.

Deangelo admitted he didn't try as hard until Testeverde sat down and talked to him about commitment to the team. We all know that Jarrett has never shown the drive to "put forth the effort" in the little things. Moore, is most likely in the same boat.

I don't think Fox is the kind of coach that is going to give anybody a damn thing. We have some puzzle pieces that say Moore is not as committed as he should be and I don't think Fox is going to give the team to a guy who is just here. Moore has the tools but to Fox that doesn't mean you get to start.

Would I like to see Moore get a shot, sure. Is Fox going to give him one just because the fans want it even though Moore is not actively doing what he needs to to take over this team. No.

I don't know how much of this is ABSOLUTELY true. Fox is not trying to sink the season just so Jake can play. There is too much money on the line for him to do some dumb poo like that.

For everyone who thinks Fox is starting Jake because of pride over the contract. Don't you think Fox would be just as proud to be the coach that found 2 undrafted QB's that have NFL starter talent to lead his team. I think they wanted Moore to be The Guy but he isn't stepping up.

:iagree: Well said and if anyone has been paying attention during Fox's tenure they would know this already. Doesn't explain why Moore's still here however.

[carolinarolls]

There is not definitive argument for wanting Matt Moore to start

There is a definitive argument for wanting Jake Delhomme to give way to another prospect.

The problem is that the rebuttal to these two arguments involve each other.

Nobody wants Jake to sit because nobody is sure of Matt.

Nobody wants Matt to start because they can't believe he can be better than Jake and still be sitting based on just how damn bad Jake has been.

let me clarify that when I say bad in reference to Jake I am not referring to his ability or inability to make plays. That has been well-documented. I am referring to just how much the playbook and game plan are limited as a result of those horrendous occasions.

So now we have a "shackled" Jake limiting play-calling and game plan and an understudy who may be just as shackled, moreso, or maybe not as much as and a fan base disgusted and wanting change but scard to death of what they are actually asking for.

So not only is our team losing football games, we as fans doubt if there is a conceivable way to get any better in the near future and are pouring nervous sweat with our hands over the red button that asks for change based on the recent track record of just how poorly our front office has shown to carry out said changes.

we suck

we don't know how to stop sucking

we are afraid that making changes in effort to stop will only make us suck harder

we don't have faith that our sucky leaders can get us to stop sucking without doing something that makes us suck worse

[rayzor]

i'm more afraid of us doing nothing and being satisfied with a poor status quo.

i'm more afraid of continuing down this path thinking that there are no better options, at peace with being able to do no better than what we are doing right now.

i am afraid of "it is what it is" and thinking that there is nothing we can do about it.

i'm afraid that his team isn't truly dedicated to finding a way to win. it wants to find a way to win on it's terms with the person it deems is the only real option at QB.

i doubt fox's dedication to making the team better.

i only want this team to be the best. following the path that they are on, there is no way that can happen. not with this QB. not with this head coach.

teams that can win, do win. they find a way to do it. they fight. they don't give up. they run into an obstruction and find a way around it. there is always another way. you just have to have the heart and the determination to find it. they don't. they won't.

here's the problem. they have in their head that they can win if they just keep doing the same thing over and over and over. if it worked once or twice, then it should work every time. this is how fox thinks. when he was questioned about the loss and how they covered the cardinals in the playoffs he said that what they did the first game worked so there is no reason to believe that it wouldn't work the second time around.

good teams adapt. they improve. they don't believe that they have it all figured out. they have one goal but are willing to do whatever it takes to get there. they are willing to take risks, even unpopular ones. even ones that they don't feel comfortable with themselves.

fox can't do it. if he can, he needs to show it.

if he can't then we need to get someone in who can.

[rayzor]

We can still win and go to the playoffs? Obviously the chances are pretty thin, but where still in it.

Delhomme and this team were on the verge to beat one of if not the best team in the league at thier place. So you can logically assume that we can hang with most of the teams left on our schedule.

We cant not afford to lose more then one more game. With Moore coming in theres likely to be alot of intial rust and miscommuntaction. Hed proably be in a even more "shackled" offence then dlehomme, and rightfully so.

If we end up losing the season early, then sure. Theres no reason not to. But not while we stil have a chance

yes we can still win and go to the playoffs but not with the team being run as it currently is. what the team is doing is losing. they don't know how to win anymore because they don't trust the person who they have chosen to lead the offense.

all of the potential problems you say could come if moore were to take over, how could that be much worse than what is already taking place? there isn't the trust there. smith doesn't trust jake anymore. that is why he wasn't expecting the ball. davidson doesn't trust him. thats why they are doing everything they can to keep from throwing the ball.

the miscommunication? it's there already.

i honestly don't know how much more someone can be shackled.

jake isn't going to get any better. moore at least has the potential to get better. i believe in teams trying to get better rather than accepting that they can't get any better and refuses to make any changes because of fear of the unknown.

[rayzor]

fox isn't willing to take risks. at this point in the game, at this rate and in this situation, it's exactly what needs to happen if you have any hope of going to the playoffs.

jake is a proven commodity. in the past he proved himself to be able to win. this year he is proven himself to be someone who can't be trusted to throw games away.

taking a risk means going with a less proven commodity. you loo at what you are doing and if you see that it isn't working you try something else, even if you are afraid of it.

for fox i don't believe it's about money. it's about will. he believes that what he is doing is the best direction, that his plan can win them games and he is going to do everything his way without trying to deviate from his plan or ideal. he has it in his head that he can win with jake so he is going to do everything to show that his belief and trust are not misplaced and to show that he is right, even if it means not allowing jake to throw the ball.

i believe he's a stubborn man who wants everything to work on his terms. he has won just enough over the course of his tenure here and early enough that he believes that he is doing the right thing.

I think that by now it is obvious that Matt Moore is not going to get the start this season and it is not because Fox is overly loyal. We have boo-koos of info on why Moore is not starting. Its the same reason Deangelo didn't start right away, Johnson will start over Anderson on Sunday, and why Jarrett was stuck behind Moose until his injury.

I would say it is apparent to all the fans that all of the guys listed above are or were more talented than the guys in front of them on the DC. I would also think that Fox knows these guys all have the talent. However the one thing they all have/had in common was that they all lack a serious work ethic to succeed.

Deangelo admitted he didn't try as hard until Testeverde sat down and talked to him about commitment to the team. We all know that Jarrett has never shown the drive to "put forth the effort" in the little things. Moore, is most likely in the same boat.

I don't think Fox is the kind of coach that is going to give anybody a damn thing. We have some puzzle pieces that say Moore is not as committed as he should be and I don't think Fox is going to give the team to a guy who is just here. Moore has the tools but to Fox that doesn't mean you get to start.

Would I like to see Moore get a shot, sure. Is Fox going to give him one just because the fans want it even though Moore is not actively doing what he needs to to take over this team. No.

I don't know how much of this is ABSOLUTELY true. Fox is not trying to sink the season just so Jake can play. There is too much money on the line for him to do some dumb poo like that.

For everyone who thinks Fox is starting Jake because of pride over the contract. Don't you think Fox would be just as proud to be the coach that found 2 undrafted QB's that have NFL starter talent to lead his team. I think they wanted Moore to be The Guy but he isn't stepping up.

[MaineManPanther]

Past Past Past. F**k the past! He has not at all played at a level to keep us in the game this year. None. Zip. The past 2 games we ran the ball 98% just to keep it out of his hands because before then when they gave him the chance, he'd hinder this team so badly. Im so sick and tired of people relying on the past to justify why to keep something thats failing in the present.

If we forget the past then take away moores 2-1 record when he started. After that what do we have that supports the idea that moore will doing any good at all? Practise? Traing camp? Preseason?

[R0CKnR0LLA]

To me, you never give a guy a chance. He earns it by coming in and busting his ass everyday and showing you that he can be your best option. Everything I've seen and heard about Moore has lead me to believe he hasn't done that.

[MaineManPanther]

FIXED

Fox isn't playing the best player. He's starting Jake because everyone else on the offense still supports him and to justify giving him the contract in the offseason. Those are the only reasons why Fox will not start Moore. Fox showed Sunday that he doesn't trust Jake at all. He went with the run just about all game. If a coach doesn't trust his QB that much, its time for a change and Fox wont make the change.

What do you base this on? Is it really that incoeviable to say, that Fox after watching Moore in all his practises, and tape, and study, truly believe he's not good option?

And if the offence supports Jake as you say, then you could argue that it gives more reason for him to stay. Yeah everybodys 'buddies' but c'mon ulitmaley the players want to win, and if they really support Jake then its' not that dumb to assume they beleive he's gives us the best chance.

[MaineManPanther]

yes we can still win and go to the playoffs but not with the team being run as it currently is. what the team is doing is losing. they don't know how to win anymore because they don't trust the person who they have chosen to lead the offense.

all of the potential problems you say could come if moore were to take over, how could that be much worse than what is already taking place? there isn't the trust there. smith doesn't trust jake anymore. that is why he wasn't expecting the ball. davidson doesn't trust him. thats why they are doing everything they can to keep from throwing the ball.

the miscommunication? it's there already.

i honestly don't know how much more someone can be shackled.

jake isn't going to get any better. moore at least has the potential to get better. i believe in teams trying to get better rather than accepting that they can't get any better and refuses to make any changes because of fear of the unknown.

You beleive Delhomme is playing at a level that cannot possibly being any worse. It can, it might not be in the same flashy perfromance Jake has done. But it can

Moore has no chemistry with any of the starters, and has two games under his belt a. And has no faith from the staff. Yes you can argue delhomme lost his chemistry and has little faith to. But theres a difference between losing it it, and never having it to begin with.

And they def can shackel a qb even more. Delhomme was given chances late in the game for deep passes, and did decently well at them. He may have not been a huge proponent , but he and the offence did well enough to be able to win it in the last two minutes.

Delhomme has the possiblbity of getting it back ( assuming of course he hasnt lost anything mentally or phyiscally) Moore has nothing to get back. He even lost his job this year to Mccown and would still be the third qb.

[rayzor]

i swear you guys would have been against jake getting his shot.

what the crap had jake ever done to prove he deserved a shot?

he was a 3rd/4th string backup QB behind aaron frikkin brooks on a bad saints football team who got sent out to europe because he was so bad.

same with warner.

what about tom brady?

tony romo?

why in the world should any of them have had a chance? what had they done to show that they deserved it before they got it?

what they had was a coach who had the guts to see what he had there. a coach who was willing to move ahead.

we used to have a coach like that. we don't anymore.

the coach fox of today would stick with rodney peete. he would stick with drew bledsoe over brady or romo.

he sure wouldn't have given a grocery bagger/arena football league QB a chance and you would have said he was right for not doing it.

all of the above is the exact reason why he will never draft a QB with the intention of ever starting him.

he's too afraid of failure. that fear holds him back and the franchise along with it.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

I get what you're saying Rayzor but there's also about a MILLION other examples of guys just skating by, clinging onto rosters spots and getting paid to hold clipboards while doing nothing and unfortunately Moore looks like he fits into that category.

[rayzor]

yep, those people who gave jake, warner, brady, and romo were fools. the odds were too great that it would pay off. it was a million to one shot.

since so many people fail in doing that and the chances are too great that it will blow up in our face, we shouldn't do it.

again, how are you going to KNOW unless you try?

[MaineManPanther]

i swear you guys would have been against jake getting his shot.

what the crap had jake ever done to prove he deserved a shot?

he was a 3rd/4th string backup QB behind aaron frikkin brooks on a bad saints football team who got sent out to europe because he was so bad.

same with warner.

what about tom brady?

tony romo?

why in the world should any of them have had a chance? what had they done to show that they deserved it before they got it?

what they had was a coach who had the guts to see what he had there. a coach who was willing to move ahead.

we used to have a coach like that. we don't anymore.

the coach fox of today would stick with rodney peete. he would stick with drew bledsoe over brady or romo.

he sure wouldn't have given a grocery bagger/arena football league QB a chance and you would have said he was right for not doing it.

all of the above is the exact reason why he will never draft a QB with the intention of ever starting him.

he's too afraid of failure. that fear holds him back and the franchise along with it.

With Delhomme and Warner you had positive tape. You had positve stuff to go on, seasons to go on. They played in Nfl Eurpoe and both won the championship. Granted, thats not huge, but it gives you alot of things to look out and form a better opinon on him. You can look at tape, you can ask the coaches, the players he played with in that time. They looked at all that and thought he was good enough to start. Moore has practises and preseason and just meeting with the coaches everyday. They obviously took all that in to form a better opinon of him, that hes not a better option

Also Jake, as I recall had a pretty decent offseason before the start of the 03 season. In fact, as I recall Bill Cowher went up to Fox after a preseason game vs pittsburgh, and told him "youd be crazy not to start him"