Shackling your quarterback

[jramsey4]

Hurney has shown that if he wants a first rounder he knows how to get one. Whether he pulls the trigger or not is up in the air. He will have to see what other needs he has and prioritize. Hopefully quarterback is high on the list.

This year was a terrible year for QB's my favorite prospect actually went in the 6th round Tom Brandstater (Poor Mans Flacco). Who would you have liked to traded up for, Freeman (no thank you)? Id rather have Josh Johnson.

[MaineManPanther]

Actually, I'd attribue that more to Hurney myself, which is why I don't want him gone like a lot of folks do. I think he's a good GM. Sure, he's made some mistakes, but again.. human.

Again though, if coaches know the best, then why do they get fired? Appeasement of the fanbase? I thought good owners don't listen to the fans? Fox is known for being a players' coach, and many vets sign here cause they know they have the best chance to start within his system. He likes Vets in skill positions over younger guys. Sometimes, I think he takes it too far though. Jake is one of these instances, imo, and Martin being a rook should have no bearing. Munnerlyn, anyone? To be fair though, the Martin example might be one of those times where practice =/= gameplay. But, that would also be an argument for Moore.

Oh, really? Cause IIRC, he hurt his leg in the preseason, and they went out and signed McCown right after that. He was listed as #3 only after his injury, and McCown was kept as the #2 mainly due to how slow he was to heal from it. But, I could be mistaken, as neither of us knows what goes on behind closed doors.

Using the QB Strings as a progression tool has been around forever. Maybe I'm just old school, but that's how it was done in the past. So your rookies can sit and learn, and eventually you get better or maintain quality as the case may be. Your 2nd string takes over, and either your vet falls to number two, or most likely is not on the team anymore. So, who do you replace your 2nd with first? Most likely the 3rd string, and so the progression goes. Again, why bother to have them on the team if you don't feel they can eventually become a starter for you? Stop gaps can be learning rookies, or they can be aging vets that will not help the conintuity of your team. Which is better in your opinion? Personally, I want the guy who is up and coming myself. Btu to each their own I guess.

I'll assume you meant risk in that last line? Yes, yes he could be risking it. Human nature has shown how friggin stubborn we all are. Case in point, how many arguments are debated over in this forum alone? How many times are people willing to be closed-minded and no matter what evidence is presented by their opposition, they refuse to even acknowledge that the other side could possibly be right? How many folks actually change their minds? This discussion alone has shown enough to support my point there. Fox is not any different, just because he has a large paycheck from his job? How many corporate managers have you known to stick with what works versus changing cause they think change will cause their downfall or that they feel it is not the right move, no matter what evidence you show them? I've known plenty myself, but I guess I could be unlucky.

People are people, no matter what level of society they are placed in. Fox is no different than you or I, and has the same human faults at his core the rest of us do. Personally, I think he's even more stubborn than some of the posters we have here in the Tinderbox, but that's just my take of the guy. Again, to each his own I guess.

Captian munerlyn is a third cb, which isnt as near a huge posistion, and can be afforeded to be taken a risk on. He also proved himself through traning camp and practise. If anything that proves Fox is willing to replace vet with rookies if they shown they can handle it and accept it. Which goes agaisnt Moore case. And Martin being a rookie should be a bearing, no rookie especailly at saftey is going to be free of making mistakes. Also add to the fact that he was Cb coming out.

So tell me, if its halfway through, assume Godfry and martin somehow are playing at a equal level in practise. Would you go with the guy who's been here a year in his position and the Nfl. Or a rookie who just a few weeks ago switched his position?

He injured himself last season in 2008. And it wasnt season ending. Mccown was put ahead. But Fox doeesnt allow players to lose thier place just based on injuires. Moore had the whole offseason of 2009, to prove he was more deserving. He did not.

The Nfl is not like that. Take for example the 2004 Carolina Panthers. Are lineup was Delhomme, Peete, Wieknie. Granted Jake took Peete's spot. But does that mean Wienke would then eveutally take Peete's then Jake's spot? No, he was there because he new the system and was a vet. So he could handle short times playing if emergency ( i:e the detroit game). And carolina is def not the only team not to do this. Its not about progression in thrid strings its about having a guy who for short amounts of time can handle the spot. Thats why youll see teams suddenly pickup a player like garcia when thier Qb and/or 2nd qb gets hurt. Because they dont want the Third to be playing alot of games.

[AKPantherFan]

like i said--

3 weeks ago everyone was screaming for fox to take jake out of the game. Now that he has, everyone is pissed and wants him throwing again...

uuuugggghhhhh..

It called LOSING -- IT SUCKS-- Just suck it up and keep trying to get better and not repeat mistakes.

Fox is coaching like a fan now- thats our damn problem.

[jramsey4]

like i said--

3 weeks ago everyone was screaming for fox to take jake out of the game. Now that he has, everyone is pissed and wants him throwing again...

fuuuugggghhhhh..

It called LOSING -- IT SUCKS-- Just suck it up and keep trying to get better and not repeat mistakes.

Fox is coaching like a fan now- thats our damn problem.

No he has to make for Jakes weaknesses. If he has to have him the starting QB I want him to only throw < 10 or 15 times. What pisses me off is he would do the same thing if Moore was in but Moore at least has potential. Jake is at his (low) ceiling he isn't getting younger or better. So if you are going to have to play this conservative it might as well be with the guy thats under 25 then the one who is in his mid-30's.

[dimbee]

Brutal honesty is fun.

[carolinanimal]

the sad thing is that even if we lose out this season, i dont think jr will fire him and even then he wont look to upgrade the qb position, never has never will, it is as strongly engrained in his philosophy as running the ball and good defense.

[panthers55]

No he has to make for Jakes weaknesses. If he has to have him the starting QB I want him to only throw < 10 or 15 times. What pisses me off is he would do the same thing if Moore was in but Moore at least has potential. Jake is at his (low) ceiling he isn't getting younger or better. So if you are going to have to play this conservative it might as well be with the guy thats under 25 then the one who is in his mid-30's.

You have the same kind of black and white linear thinking you criticize Fox for having. How many throws we make should be determined by how well we are passing the ball, the defensive system being employed and how well he is playing. So far he has gone 2 games without an interception in a limited capacity or not. If he continues to play well then they should open it up, if not dial it back or make a change at QB.

How about showing the same flexibility and willingness to make adjustments that you criticize the coaches for lacking.

[Squirrel]

like i said--

3 weeks ago everyone was screaming for fox to take jake out of the game. Now that he has, everyone is pissed and wants him throwing again...

uuuugggghhhhh..

It called LOSING -- IT SUCKS-- Just suck it up and keep trying to get better and not repeat mistakes.

Fox is coaching like a fan now- thats our damn problem.

People wanted Jake benched big difference.

[MaineManPanther]

And honestly where are you getting this whole holding jake back idea?

He thew 30 times last game. 14 before that. And 44 before that.

You guys act like they only making him throw ten passes a game.

[carolinanimal]

The time to bring matt moore in has passed. he should have brought him in on the bye week with 2 weeks to prepare. now i dont think he will do it even if delhomme has another breakdown.

he really cant put in matt moore now. Think about it.

if he puts in matt moore and he does good, or even just better than delhomme, he will look like a idiot. the questions would just come pouring in! why didnt he play him sooner? why did they give a contract extension to jake?

so fox will stick with his comfort zone and live or die with jake .

[jpniner]

And honestly where are you getting this whole holding jake back idea?

He thew 30 times last game. 14 before that. And 44 before that.

You guys act like they only making him throw ten passes a game.

44 pass game Jake lost for us, against the bills of all teams

the 14 game, he only completed 7 and we ran all over them

Against the Saints, most of those 30 were low risk pass plays. Which will not yield much reward. Fox is going out of his way to keep Jake from throwing INT's

How many for career now anyway? 80 something?

[jramsey4]

You have the same kind of black and white linear thinking you criticize Fox for having. How many throws we make should be determined by how well we are passing the ball, the defensive system being employed and how well he is playing. So far he has gone 2 games without an interception in a limited capacity or not. If he continues to play well then they should open it up, if not dial it back or make a change at QB.

How about showing the same flexibility and willingness to make adjustments that you criticize the coaches for lacking.

No I think if you let jake throw it as much as you need to to be balanced he has multiple turnovers. I only want whats best for our team. And were did I criticize Fox's play calling I'm actually defending it.

[carolinanimal]

thats the tough part. do you give delhomme more freedom hoping he doesnt turn it over, and if he does how do you react? is fox capable of doing this?

[dimbee]

I am curious, though... what takes honesty and makes it "brutal?"