Trench Stats(DL/OL)

[kungfoodude]

21 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Right, but despite having terrible OLs for at least the last few years, and a slow processing speed, he's taking fewer sacks than he should based on the OL.  Not saying the OL is the only thing at fault with our O.  Darnold is a problem too.

It is interesting how in 2 minute drills his processing speed seems to improve. You can visibly see him scanning the field faster.  It isn't a matter of him just making one read throws either. 

There is a reason why he has such poor clean pocket statistics. The longer he has, the worse his decision making is. Some of it is his gunslinger instinct to try and force a play but some of it is that he just isn't processing what he is seeing quickly or well enough.

I suspect that's why he actually tends to do better the more quick and decisive that he is(under pressure, two minute, etc). He isn't overthinking, he is just reacting. But, I just don't think there is much we can do about it anymore. He just is who he is.

[frankw]

9 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

And yet Deshaun Watson is worse in Time to Throw.

So is Lamar Jackson 

So is Josh Allen

Here we go again with this comparing him to the best in the league. Are any of those quarterbacks in the habit of throwing passes that hit defenders in the numbers? Sam has gotten the benefit of the doubt for things here beyond his control but the ugly turnovers having been going on four years now through different offenses. It's always been his decision making that was the question about taking the next step.

[mav1234]

4 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

And yet Deshaun Watson is worse in Time to Throw.

So is Lamar Jackson 

So is Josh Allen

Time to throw isn't necessarily an indictment. But it does indicate he may not be seeing the field / processing what he sees well.

I would be curious to see how that time has changed across games this season.

[kungfoodude]

18 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

but also three terrible offensive lines.

Yeah but the solution to having bad lines is not to hold on to the ball longer.

[Catsfan69]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but the solution to having bad lines is not to hold on to the ball longer.

If you are running for your life time to throw goes up.

[kungfoodude]

11 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

And yet Deshaun Watson is worse in Time to Throw.

So is Lamar Jackson 

So is Josh Allen

There isn't a worse or better in Time To Throw. That stat may indicate that you have excellent protection or it may be that your offense doesn't feature as many quick throws or it may be that you are a mobile QB and scramble to extend plays.

The thing that makes it stand out is that we have a quick read offense under Brady and Teddy was near the top of the list in Time to Throw(one of the quickest). So, it makes me wonder why Darnold isn't getting rid of the ball more quickly. He is either struggling to make reads or he is holding on to the ball looking for bigger plays....or some combination of those two things. We aren't doing things dramatically different on offense than last season.

[Catsfan69]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but the solution to having bad lines is not to hold on to the ball longer.

You can't win consistently doing what we did last year 4 and 5 yard completions unless you have Cmac or Kamara.

We have a five way offensive problem.

Darnold is a small part of that.

[frankw]

In the last 2 starts Sam Darnold has thrown an interception on the final offensive play and then an interception on the very first offensive play. We can talk about the oline all we want but if the processing doesn't improve we're toast.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Catsfan69 said:

You can't win consistently doing what we did last year 4 and 5 yard completions unless you have Cmac or Kamara.

We have a five way offensive problem.

Darnold is a small part of that.

Darnold is the second biggest part of the problem, IMO. 

1. OL

2. Darnold

3. Brady

If we fix any of the three things we will only get so much better, IMO. The OL can be improved, although it will take time. Brady MAY be able to improve but it also may be years after he is gone from here. Darnold's improvement chances are quite slim.

 

[mav1234]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The thing that makes it stand out is that we have a quick read offense under Brady and Teddy was near the top of the list in Time to Throw(one of the quickest). So, it makes me wonder why Darnold isn't getting rid of the ball more quickly. He is either struggling to make reads or he is holding on to the ball looking for bigger plays....or some combination of those two things. We aren't doing things dramatically different on offense than last season.

I think it's a combination but the fact he's throwing deep way more than Teddy did last year suggests to me he's trying to get bigger chunk plays (which actually may also have to do with what is available on a given play).  He certainly misses receivers deep both in terms of what he sees and on his throws, but I think too teams are figuring Brady's offense out a bit and with a RB that is struggling to catch... Well, yeah.

[SJTGV]

Derrick Brown 6 games 2TFL 1 Sack... top 10 pick.... bust?

[kungfoodude]

Just now, mav1234 said:

I think it's a combination but the fact he's throwing deep way more than Teddy did last year suggests to me he's trying to get bigger chunk plays (which actually may also have to do with what is available on a given play).  He certainly misses receivers deep both in terms of what he sees and on his throws, but I think too teams are figuring Brady's offense out a bit and with a RB that is struggling to catch... Well, yeah.

Well, he actually isn't. On average just basically one more pass per game than Teddy.

Throws of 20+ yards through 6 games for Teddy: 17

Throws of 20+ yards through 6 games for Darnold: 24

Trust me, I beat Teddy up about the deep passing last year too but I had to begrudgingly admit over the course of the year that he did actually take more deep shots than I wanted to admit(those threads are still available to reference, FWIW). 

Which, we should only expect to see so much of an improvement in taking shots deep. The offense is designed to make relatively quick reads and throws. Darnold is just struggling to do that. I can do a deeper dive to see where they both rate in terms of percentages of passes to what zones(0-10, 10-20, 20+). Perhaps that will show a clearer picture of tendencies.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, SJTGV said:

Derrick Brown 6 games 2TFL 1 Sack... top 10 pick.... bust?

Uh...no.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, SJTGV said:

Derrick Brown 6 games 2TFL 1 Sack... top 10 pick.... bust?

Interior DL don't often have big stat lines.  Brown takes up a lot of space, and blocks, which enables our edge rushers to feast.