Why Fire Fox?

[CatfanMO]

I will take a different approach to this...We all know Foxs record and never having back to back winning seasons. We have a good one, then a bad one. Everybody gripes about this streak...Well guys, we are due for a winning season. Bring him back.

[hepcat]

Fire him because he will more than likely start Jake Delhomme again. Matt Moore will have more TD passes in 5 starts than Jake had in 11.

[westcaro]

I agree, whatever we need to do to have Matt Moore on the field might not be a bad thing.

[Mr. Scot]

My argument has been that the combo of team and coach has likely gone as far as it can. To get off the rollercoaster and get to the next level, I think both sides need a new start.

[Smithers]

One thing people seem to overlook is the fact that this team has never been worse than 7-9 under Fox. I agree, Fox makes some terrible mistakes as a coach, and I want him gone just as much as the next person after each horrific loss in which play calling and a lack of coaching moves is to blame. But I guess the bottom line is that very few coaches can say that their worst season in the NFL is 7-9...and almost every one of those seasons was the result of a string of hurtful injuries. It will be interesting to see how this situation is handled.

[Smithers]

Fire him because he will more than likely start Jake Delhomme again. Matt Moore will have more TD passes in 5 starts than Jake had in 11.

I do not think Jake will start again unless their is an injury.

[CatfanMO]

Fire him because he will more than likely start Jake Delhomme again. Matt Moore will have more TD passes in 5 starts than Jake had in 11.

I honestly think Moore starts over Delhomme next season. Fox or no Fox. Fox is not that nieve to put Delhomme in again.. Next season is a must win and I think Fox finally realizes that Moore is the "Best Option".

[unicar15]

1. He agreed to extend Jake Delhomme.

2. He is ridiculously loyal to players that aren't any good.

3. He can't have back to back playoff years.

4. He won't fire Danny Crossman.

5. After he picks our first rounders you might as well cut the rest of our draft picks.

6. He has struggled (to put it mildly) to develop a wide receiver other than Steve Smith.

7. Our teams are wildly eratic in their play and can never be motivated to win every game.

8. If #7 isn't true, then he is just not a very good X's and O's guy.

9. He ignored a more talented, more athletic, and to this point...more capable QB on our bench for 13 weeks.

And finally the biggest reason of all...

10. Jake Delhomme might still be a our QB next year if we don't get rid of him

[Nu Guns]

1. He agreed to extend Jake Delhomme.

2. He is ridiculously loyal to players that aren't any good.

3. He can't have back to back playoff years.

4. He won't fire Danny Crossman.

5. After he picks our first rounders you might as well cut the rest of our draft picks.

6. He has struggled (to put it mildly) to develop a wide receiver other than Steve Smith.

7. Our teams are wildly eratic in their play and can never be motivated to win every game.

8. If #7 isn't true, then he is just not a very good X's and O's guy.

9. He ignored a more talented, more athletic, and to this point...more capable QB on our bench for 13 weeks.

And finally the biggest reason of all...

10. Jake Delhomme might still be a our QB next year if we don't get rid of him

Great post....but you left one thing off the list....

11. Conservative predictable football.

Never trying to go for more points with under 2 minutes before half.

Never passing the ball if its over 3rd and 10- whats this...another draw play??!!!

Field position football needs to leave Carolina...because if we have injuries Fox still uses the same formula even if we dont have the players on the field to run it.

[Sheldon Wolowizard]

The most realistic reason I think to fire Fox is simple. He's lost fan support. Looking at this from a business standpoint, the fans (your clients) are tired of losing every other year. They want consistency. They want his head on a platter. They pay the bills. They are the ones that buy the merchandise, PSLs and 5 dollar flat beer. No consistency, no big games in the TV market. He's costing the franchise money. Yeah, he makes it every other year when they get their easy schedule.

Most of us were screaming to bench foster for 2 years. He was our starter and I don't believe he has even played this year. D will exploded as a RB. Fox said that Jake was our best chance to win. Was he watching the same jake the rest of us were? Jake's put on IR for a broken finger ( I'm not buying that) and Moore comes in to save the day. We as fans have been screaming for more all year.

I think the biggest reason though is the fan base can't take another year. Fox has lost the fanbase and in a business as big as the NFL, keeping him could easily be millions lost.

[holycrikey]

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5. After he picks our first rounders you might as well cut the rest of our draft picks.

6. He has struggled (to put it mildly) to develop a wide receiver other than Steve Smith.

5. Lies. Have you even looked at our draft's since 2003? We've gotten good value in the later rounds, especially when compared to other teams drafts. Fox and company draft very well. Look at the 2006/07/08 drafts especially. I don't think it's fair to complain about our drafting.

6. Is that really Fox's fault? We do have WR coaches and ultimately, it is up to the player to show up. If the talent isn't there, it just isn't.

I'm going to defend Fox about 80% of the time. There are things I don't like, like many of you. I respect his loyalty to Delhomme, but I hope he realizes that it is time to move forward. Let Delhomme retire from starting and let him enjoy being the franchise leader in passing.

I also have problems with the lack of a good/great 2nd WR. The fact is, Fox's philosophy didn't put too much emphasis on WR's. And when Moose left, Fox did try to develop the "next" Moose. They pulled in Keyshawn, and although everyone hates him, he complimented Smitty and almost had a 1,000 yard season. Then, Jarrett was widely hailed as a top 5 possession receiver to replace Moose/Me-shawn. It just didn't pan out that way. I think Fox and his staff legitimately attempted to develop a new WR, and if the talent is there in the draft, I think they'll attempt it again. We all know how iffy WR's are once they hit the NFL. They are anything but a sure thing (good lord, look at Detroit from the Millen era. All WR's were hailed as great and they barely (or didn't) work out)

I think Fox is on the move towards rectifying these problems. After all this time, I think he knows to move forward. I look forward to see what he does in the offseason.

Edit: Check out Soresenson's article in the Observer about Fox. I think it's a pretty good evaluation of the Fox and what's going on.

[unicar15]

Even if we win and go to the playoffs in 2010 the entire fanbase will be holding their breath for 2011 expecting not to make the playoffs...

[unicar15]

5. Lies. Have you even looked at our draft's since 2003? We've gotten good value in the later rounds, especially when compared to other teams drafts. Fox and company draft very well. Look at the 2006/07/08 drafts especially. I don't think it's fair to complain about our drafting.

6. Is that really Fox's fault? We do have WR coaches and ultimately, it is up to the player to show up. If the talent isn't there, it just isn't.

I'm going to defend Fox about 80% of the time. There are things I don't like, like many of you. I respect his loyalty to Delhomme, but I hope he realizes that it is time to move forward. Let Delhomme retire from starting and let him enjoy being the franchise leader in passing.

I also have problems with the lack of a good/great 2nd WR. The fact is, Fox's philosophy didn't put too much emphasis on WR's. And when Moose left, Fox did try to develop the "next" Moose. Jarrett was widely hailed as a top 5 possession receiver. It just didn't pan out that way. I think Fox and his staff legitimately attempted to develop a new WR.

I think Fox is on the move towards rectifying these problems. After all this time, I think he knows to move forward. I look forward to see what he does in the offseason.

Then Fox's philosophy sucks. If you haven't noticed...the best teams in the league have more than one playmaker at WR. A lot of them have more than two.

And to answer your question...when you are the head coach you go into the job accepting ALL of the blame when you lose and accepting ALL of the praise when you win.

Your arguments are weak...

Fox "attempted" to develop a WR??? Who the hell cares? He failed at it and that is what matters.

I'm not a Fox "hater." I think he is a good coach but I think his philosophy leans WAY too much on one aspect of football...running the ball. Maybe if we brought in another WR that was a legitimate target to run after catch then our passing game would improve. But I'm telling you right now...the grind the clock, run the ball, stop the run philosophy is going to get us in trouble in games where our defense has an off day.

As long as he commits to a QB OTHER THAN Jake Delhomme and finds a way to get Delhomme OFF the team then I am fine with John Fox...for now. He needs to bring in a LEGIT WR target and actually make an effort to get them the ball.

I'm willing to give Matt Moore a shot next year at taking the team but he isn't going to go very far with Steve Smith as the only legit threat to throw to.

[holycrikey]

Then Fox's philosophy sucks. If you haven't noticed...the best teams in the league have more than one playmaker at WR. A lot of them have more than two.

And to answer your question...when you are the head coach you go into the job accepting ALL of the blame when you lose and accepting ALL of the praise when you win.

Your arguments are weak...

Fox "attempted" to develop a WR??? Who the hell cares? He failed at it and that is what matters.

I'm not a Fox "hater." I think he is a good coach but I think his philosophy leans WAY too much on one aspect of football...running the ball. Maybe if we brought in another WR that was a legitimate target to run after catch then our passing game would improve. But I'm telling you right now...the grind the clock, run the ball, stop the run philosophy is going to get us in trouble in games where our defense has an off day.

As long as he commits to a QB OTHER THAN Jake Delhomme and finds a way to get Delhomme OFF the team then I am fine with John Fox...for now. He needs to bring in a LEGIT WR target and actually make an effort to get them the ball.

I'm willing to give Matt Moore a shot next year at taking the team but he isn't going to go very far with Steve Smith as the only legit threat to throw to.

Yes, he attempted to develop a new WR. You can only sign so many WR's within the cap. Like every position, you evaluate and ultimately, make a good guess. Jarrett just didn't turn out. If the guy had actually lived up to the hype, we'd see much more pass attack (and we still might. Moore might give him more looks. It's all very much in the air.)

I think we basically both agree with one another. Those are the main points. I think we need a new QB that isn't named Delhomme, and we need a legitimate #2 WR (and a decent slot guy).

I think a lot of you guys don't realize that Fox is very much like other coaches. He relies on the run to setup the play action and deep pass, which many other teams utilize like crazy. It just so happened that the past two years we saw the decline of Delhomme. In 2008, Delhomme had 8 games of 200 yards passing or more. That isn't bad, but we saw what happened when you basically see your starting QB degrade to nothing (this season.)

What it boils down to, I think Fox's philosophy WILL work, given that they can move the ball through the air after the rush. With Delhomme, it worked in previous years, but doesn't any longer. I think you upgrade the QB position and it'll work very well. Whether that be Moore or some other young guy with an accurate arm, it'll work.

The biggest thing is that if you take Delhomme out of the equation, you have almost a brand new team. I don't think it'd be fair to eject Fox without giving him a shot with a young QB (and hopefully Fox sees it that way as well).

If Fox holds onto Delhomme as a starter....well, then I'll lose my faith as well.