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The Roar Podcast with John Ellis is back

TheSpecialJuan

By TheSpecialJuan,
in Carolina Panthers

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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

The issue is literally his size and strength, which he apparently can't improve upon first glimpses of him showing up to voluntary workouts. They can try to fix his footwork but as soon as there are 5 6'5" guys in his face that's gonna be out the window and he'll revert back to what got him to this level in the first place which worked in college but did not last year facing grown men

I see it too, don't get me wrong.  My thing is, "how can we fix it?"  Give him time, protection, and weapons.  If not, he is out.  If Morgan and the new coaches did not think they could develop him as is, they would not want to inherit Fitterer's mistakes.  The only thing that worries me--is Tepper involved in this?  Did he hire Canales on the condition that he could fix his mistake, which is why Canales was hired?  If not, I trust that Morgan and Canales have some ideas.

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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

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Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

I mean comparing him to brees will never get old..........

The comparison is to a player at the same position with the same criticism (QB, hopping).  It is how New Orleans built the program around a shorter QB.  Gold Jacket.

Cannot think of a more appropriate comparison.

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I see it too, don't get me wrong.  My thing is, "how can we fix it?"  Give him time, protection, and weapons.  If not, he is out.  If Morgan and the new coaches did not think they could develop him as is, they would not want to inherit Fitterer's mistakes.  The only thing that worries me--is Tepper involved in this?  Did he hire Canales on the condition that he could fix his mistake, which is why Canales was hired?  If not, I trust that Morgan and Canales have some ideas.

Morgan was never getting hired if he went negative against bryce especially if he was on the young train pre draft.  Morgan did and said what he had to for the job.  Probably in his mind he has one re-do at qb if young isnt it.  Very few gms make it past 2 qbs

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

Posted
Posted

Bryce Young is smaller than Johnny Football and people are still out here making comparisons to hall of famers.

How about we start small (no pun intended) and let this guy actually show any level of an NFL deep ball in his second season as a pro?

Sound good? Awesome.

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Jackie Lee Grand Master

Jackie Lee

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

The comparison is to a player at the same position with the same criticism (QB, hopping).  It is how New Orleans built the program around a shorter QB.  Gold Jacket.

Cannot think of a more appropriate comparison.

Doug Flutie if he has the determination lol. At least Doug had some fire to his game

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

The comparison is to a player at the same position with the same criticism (QB, hopping).  It is how New Orleans built the program around a shorter QB.  Gold Jacket.

Cannot think of a more appropriate comparison.

If you say so, but A) brees is the most accurate qb in nfl history (so its wild to compare young to that) and B) it took Brees 4 years and then HOF level coach to really get going.

 

situations just arent the same

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Bryce Young is smaller than Johnny Football and people are still out here making comparisons to hall of famers.

How about we start small (no pun intended) and let this guy actually show any level of an NFL deep ball in his second season as a pro?

Sound good? Awesome.

The luke (welcome to the nfl) play on Johnny football will never get old

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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Jackie Lee said:

Ignore the hair look at the eye levelFngPzoUXEAEngqT.thumb.jpeg.a30949bf3ea00803681ccee26db26d3f.jpeg

Bryce is short.  I knew that going in.  Answer this question and I will let you all claim victory.  If you are so certain that Bryce is going to fail, why would a new coach and GM not cut him right away?  They have no ties to him.  Why would they simply not make Andy the starter?  Are they stupid?  If you can answer that question without creating some hyperbolic assumption presented as fact, you will convince me.  Yes, Bryce is short.  Got it.  What is the difference between two inches when it is six feet vs 6' 5" or 5'10" vs. 6' 5"?  I just refuse to throw players and coaches under the bus until they have had a chance to do what they say.  I also respect their expertise. However, if you knew in your heart that Young is not going to cut it, you cut him immediately.  Play Andy and draft Nix or even Rattler.  They could do that, but I doubt it.  So you are a new GM or a new coach and Bryce is your QB.  What do you do the minute you take over and why didn't Canales and Morgan?

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Jackie Lee Grand Master

Jackie Lee

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

If you say so, but A) brees is the most accurate qb in nfl history (so its wild to compare young to that) and B) it took Brees 4 years and then HOF level coach to really get going.

 

situations just arent the same

Yeah the Saints invested $10m in Brees as a gamble that paid off, if it didn't they could have easily moved on. We gambled a whole bunch more on a completely unproven smaller guy that was pretty good at one of the best schools in college. He couldn't even get his team to the playoffs last year, and before people blame his supporting cast, Cam won a natty at Auburn with nothing

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MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, frankw said:

Bryce Young is smaller than Johnny Football and people are still out here making comparisons to hall of famers.

How about we start small (no pun intended) and let this guy actually show any level of an NFL deep ball in his second season as a pro?

Sound good? Awesome.

That is intentionally misleading, but if it makes you feel right, ok.  The problem attributed to Young was a problem attributed to another short QB.  How did the team overcome that issue and get him to the hall of fame?  They paid guards.  Now, that is what Morgan did. 

That is the comparison.  It suggests that the GM and head Coach are going to do the same thing here.  That is what was stated.  Are you claiming to know more than the GM and Head Coach?   That is a yes or no question. 

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

That is intentionally misleading, but if it makes you feel right, ok.  The problem attributed to Young was a problem attributed to another short QB.  How did the team overcome that issue and get him to the hall of fame?  They paid guards.  Now, that is what Morgan did. 

That is the comparison.  It suggests that the GM and head Coach are going to do the same thing here.  That is what was stated.  Are you claiming to know more than the GM and Head Coach?   That is a yes or no question. 

In regards to young or stroud.  Yes.  I absolutely know more then either if young is still their choice

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    • LinvilleGorge
      2027: Sharing my thoughts on the cap without a lotta research

      By LinvilleGorge · Posted

      No. Physical tools alone aren't enough. There are plenty of examples of draft busts to support that. Aost all of them had the physical tools and that wasn't enough. But Bryce is a perfect example of the opposite. Absolutely elite intangibles aren't enough either. If you simply don't have the physical abilities all the football intelligence and work ethic in the world won't be enough to overcome it. Just look to the sidelines every Sunday. We call those people "coaches".
    • SmokinwithWilly
      2027: Sharing my thoughts on the cap without a lotta research

      By SmokinwithWilly · Posted

      As much as I despise Billy B, his philosophy on QBs is how I would approach things if I were a GM. You always keep looking for your next starter.  He has Bledsoe, who got injured and his backup ended up being the GOAT. Even while he had that going, he kept getting his next guy and developing them. When Brady got hurt, Cassel stepped in and went 11-5 and they missed the wild card by dumb luck. Who knows how far they would have gone if they had gotten in. Jimmy Gs career started in NE. There were others, but he always kept looking.  You can't be afraid to keep looking for your next starter, but it looks like we're afraid to look for more than a marginal one. If you're going to offer a $25m contract with incentives, that screams marginal QB. It also screams you're just a transition until we find our guy. After a 10 or 11 win season, he's not accepting that offer. And then you're in a Daniel Jones situation. Do you pay for a year of success and pray it wasn't a one year wonder?  To this point, Bryce has really produced nothing, yet for whatever reason, our FO has not even sniffed at the idea that we need a real QB room with real QBs. Dalton was never starter potential, Plummer was a joke. KP certainly isn't, neither is Grier.  Our approach to the QB room needs to be one of strength not fear. Bring in guys who can compete or who you think can compete. This is THE elite position, in an elite sport, paid premium salary, where production matters. Either you produce or you can lose your job. It's not mean, it's just the reality of the position.  And I'm really just tired of our candy ass approach to it. 
    • LinvilleGorge
      2027: Sharing my thoughts on the cap without a lotta research

      By LinvilleGorge · Posted

      If you plug Bryce onto the Pro Bowl roster you might have a chance to compete for a SB. If he's surrounded by top tier talent with a top tier defense on the other side, a field flipping punter, and a kicker good from 60+ you might have a chance. But that means you basically have to recreate Saban's Bama in the NFL and that's impossible... and Bryce couldn't win a championship in that environment either. What the Panthers didn't realize when they got so obsessed with his "PG mentality" was that what they were looking st was a "barely checks the box PG". The basketball equivalent of Bryce would be an undersized PG with marginal athleticism who can make the basic plays but adds nothing to the team in terms of elevating the overall team. Not a great shooter, not a great defender, not a great driver. Just a guy who can basically get you into the offense and be a matador on defense. Basically a placeholder while you look to upgrade the PG position. 
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