A look back at preseason predictions

[kungfoodude]

Just now, CRA said:

Ladd would not be Ladd lined up on the outside all game.  He is effective because he is played to his strength.  Ladd and AT would be competing for the same rep.   XL had the potential to give us the biggest ceiling..... because you can let AT be AT and leave him alone. 

I am not arguing he would be as productive here as SD. I am arguing he would be far more productive than XL has been and could have eventually occupied AT's role when he moved on. Is that basically a luxury pick by definition? Yes, probably so. But XL was a panic pick, and that's infinitely worse. 

Like I said, my argument has and will always be, get NFL caliber players. Don't spend resources on longshots in early draft rounds. 

This is not even close to an apples to apples comparison for several reasons but remember how people grumbled about taking Luke Keuchly at 9 when we had very good LB's already? Honestly, if you look at a lot of stable franchises, they don't often reach for need. They get players that could be successful in the NFL, regardless of position.

This is a very long winded BPA pitch, TBH. XL wasn't remotely close to the BPA, even at his position alone.

[Icege]

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

If he doesn't start catching the ball he's headed down the road TMJ was on. He's already been phased out except for the last game where they forced it to him.

I was watching the game with my son and his girlfriend who is not a football fan. She asked several times why they keep throwing the ball to 17 when he keeps dropping it. I said I would like to know the answer to that myself. 

I'm hoping that's what his level up for this offseason will be: his hands.

Though I wouldn't say he's gotten phased out either just taking a brief look at his targets...

Curious to see if they'll force the ball to him against the Falcons.

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, Icege said:

Yea, but he's also beating his guy on plays where the ball isn't going to him. His route running is so improved from last year at South Carolina that it's got me downright giddy to see what he adds to his toolbelt this offseason.

He has a ton of talent but he has the skills of a freshman college WR. His utter lack of development and production at SC was a big red flag, IMO. 

I hope I get to eat these opinions in a big way(I had to with my take on Cam) but this story just seems so very familiar to a Panthers fan.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, Icege said:

I'm hoping that's what his level up for this offseason will be: his hands.

Though I wouldn't say he's gotten phased out either just taking a brief look at his targets...

Curious to see if they'll force the ball to him against the Falcons.

Probably will. I mean they have nothing to lose. Time to throw out all the stops and either come out victorious of go down in flames like they normally do.

[CRA]

19 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Go look at the games, XL is rarely drawing a double. 

He isn't supposed to be.  He is a raw rookie. 

I lobbied hard for XL.  But at that same time, I conceded then Bryce Young doesn't really throw the type balls and routes that he is going to fit.  I lobbied for XL because I largely thought Bryce would also be gone.   XL basically needs the vintage Wilson balls or the ones Evans gets.  Bryce doesn't throw those vertical balls where the WR just has to run up under it.  Bryce likes the drags, slants and attacking toward the sideline. 

I mean, they had one dialed up Sunday.  XL had them beat vertically.  Bryce just couldn't put the ball up for him.  It was an underthrow and a nothing play.  That's basically why we drafted him for THAT.  And you can count those attempts on one hand and still have fingers. 

I wouldn't of lobbied for XL if I didn't believe BY would have soon be gone.   I would have just lobbied to replace AT with Ladd.  Slowly this year.  All together next year. 

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

He isn't supposed to be.  He is a raw rookie. 

I lobbied hard for XL.  But at that same time, I conceded then Bryce Young doesn't really throw the type balls and routes that he is going to fit.  I still think that largely held true.   XL basically needs the vintage Wilson balls or the ones Evans gets.  Bryce doesn't throw those vertical balls where the WR just has to run up under it.  Bryce likes the drags, slants and attacking toward the sideline. 

I mean, they had one dialed up Sunday.  XL had them beat vertically.  Bryce just couldn't put the ball up for him.  It was an underthrow and a nothing play.  That's basically why we drafted him for THAT.  And you can count those attempts on one hand and still have fingers. 

I guess you missed the 2 deep shots to Theilen then or the one Moore dropped in the end zone. 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

He isn't supposed to be.  He is a raw rookie. 

I lobbied hard for XL.  But at that same time, I conceded then Bryce Young doesn't really throw the type balls and routes that he is going to fit.  I still think that largely held true.   XL basically needs the vintage Wilson balls or the ones Evans gets.  Bryce doesn't throw those vertical balls where the WR just has to run up under it.  Bryce likes the drags, slants and attacking toward the sideline. 

I mean, they had one dialed up Sunday.  XL had them beat vertically.  Bryce just couldn't put the ball up for him.  It was an underthrow and a nothing play.  That's basically why we drafted him for THAT.  And you can count those attempts on one hand and still have fingers. 

I mean, you are describing a WR who is a poor man's Ted Ginn(which is probably ultimately accurate). 

Also, it isn't like he balled out with Dalton who is much superior to Bryce in terms of arm strength.

Even if your assertion was true, why on earth would you draft a WR for a QB you don’t have?

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

I guess you missed the 2 deep shots to Theilen then or the one Moore dropped in the end zone. 

I mean, I didn't miss those.  But those still aren't the type routes/plays/ throws I was referencing. 

AT basically sneaks by folks sometimes as a product of his volume and film.   That's not the vintage Seattle/Bucs vertical bomb.  

[Jon Snow]

Just now, CRA said:

I mean, I didn't miss those.  But those still aren't the type routes/plays/ throws I was referencing. 

AT basically sneaks by folks sometimes as a product of his volume and film.   That's not the vintage Seattle/Bucs vertical bomb.  

And again i ask, who do we have on the roster that can stretch the field?

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, you are describing a WR who is a poor man's Ted Ginn(which is probably ultimately accurate). 

Also, it isn't like he balled out with Dalton who is much superior to Bryce in terms of arm strength.

Even if your assertion was true, why on earth would you draft a WR for a QB you don’t have?

to an extent, yeah sort of a Ginn variant.  Every O Canales has ever been around has had those throws built in and relied on them to make the whole puzzle work. 

as I said, I wanted XL because we had Dave.....and I thought Bryce would be done this year.  So I wanted a WR for Dave.   If you told Bryce was going be the dude going into year 3 (which I didn't think was true)....I wouldn't of lobbied for XL but for a Ladd type. 

and I think I largely was right.  Injury derailed the "plan".  Dave and Tepper were done w/ Bryce 2 weeks in.  The injury rewrote things for them.  Now we are sort of in no plan territory.  Where nothing really fits as far as plan/vision. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

to an extent, yeah sort of a Ginn variant.  Every O Canales has ever been around has had those throws built in and relied on them to make the whole puzzle work. 

as I said, I wanted XL because we had Dave.....and I thought Bryce would be done this year.  So I wanted a WR for Dave.   If you told Bryce was going be the dude going into year 3 (which I didn't think was true)....I wouldn't of lobbied for XL but for a Ladd type. 

and I think I largely was right.  Injury derailed the "plan".  Dave and Tepper were done w/ Bryce 2 weeks in.  The injury rewrote things for them.  Now we are sort of in no plan territory.  Where nothing really fits as far as plan/vision. 

Well it doesn't help that XL is quite frankly, not good at all.

I genuinely hope he doesn't have a sophomore slump because my God I would hate to see what that looks like.

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

And again i ask, who do we have on the roster that can stretch the field?

a portion of that puzzle is on the QB and playcaller.  Not just the WR.  I think that part is ignored.  Bryce just isn't that type QB and he Dave just don't go that route.  Dave tries to do what Bryce can do.   XL can threaten it with the play calls and throws.  It probably would be as consistent as the Ginn days if we did it a lot.  As in not very consistent.  I mean, that's what we drafted in XL.  But that's not Bryce.  So it's conflicting.  When I lobbied for XL....I always was upfront I didn't think he worked with Bryce.   

[Jon Snow]

Just now, CRA said:

a portion of that puzzle is on the QB and playcaller.  Not just the WR.  I think that part is ignored.  Bryce just isn't that type QB and he Dave just don't go that route.  Dave tries to do what Bryce can do.   XL can threaten it with the play calls and throws.  It probably would be as consistent as the Ginn days if we did it a lot.  I mean, that's what we drafted in XL.  But that's not Bryce. 

They do have that route and Young can throw those passes. The inl6 reliable receiver we have is too slow to beat the coverage without being a savvy vet. The others besides Coker cannot be counted to catch the damn ball. Now if you want to complain the Canales doesn't call them enough have at it. But saying Young cannot make the throw has been debunked. 

[CRA]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Well it doesn't help that XL is quite frankly, not good at all.

I genuinely hope he doesn't have a sophomore slump because my God I would hate to see what that looks like.

well, the NFL is all about fit.   Where you land matters.  Everyone isn't going to grow and succeed the same regardless of which of the 32 draft them.  When we drafted XL.....I this year wouldn't be great because he doesn't fit with Bryce. 

random guy can land at team X and fade away.  Same kid could go to team Y and thrive. 

goes back to my whole vision thing.  Under Tepper we have been a team of random parts and people put together.  That's IMO why we have stunk so bad.  If Bryce stays, then I think XL will have been a horrible pick.  But that's not hindsight on my part.  I always thought they would pair poorly.  Bryce rebounding wasn't in my plans.  I don't think Tepper and Dave thought it either.