Some more NFC South stats I dug up.

[Jon Snow]

Man I hate the off-season! Can't we find something better to talk about? This stuff makes my head hurt. Is there anybody here that has anything about the team to report other than utter speculation or opinion? Where will I go for news on the team if I can't find it here?

end rant

[twylyght]

Well if you take away the steelers 6 championships I guess they're not really that good. LMAO serisouly what kind of dumb f*ck argument is that? You cant take away championships. They count more than anything else! Would you be willing to make the same argument if the panthers had won the SB in 2003? Yeah take away that SB title and we've been pretty inconsistent.

Jeez.... okay, let's see if we can break this down for everyone. The originator's post was clearly built on which team in the NFCS is the perennial contender. As an aside, he also showed that this division seems to be a contender in the NFC. He used stats to prove his point that since the creation of the division, the Panthers are consistently the team to beat.

You have dismissed this as the premise for his argument citing that being a perennial contender does not matter, but winning the championship is the only true measure.

At this point, I would leave it at that, but because your condescending tone throughout belies a sense of superiority and does away with simple civility. Well, your lack of math skills are on full display for anyone with eyes to see, and your true understanding of the game (and simple statistics for that matter) has made an ass of you. Take your own advice and invest in some reading comprehension and statistics skills. Maybe then you will actually find levity and objectivity in your reasoning.

[Delhommey]

Well if you take away the steelers 6 championships I guess they're not really that good. LMAO serisouly what kind of dumb f**k argument is that? You cant take away championships. They count more than anything else! Would you be willing to make the same argument if the panthers had won the SB in 2003? Yeah take away that SB title and we've been pretty inconsistent.

Your "Kiss the ring" argument is tired and brings nothing to the table.

Your pick and choose approach to statistics is not objective.

That's pretty much it.

[Wither]

Well if you take away the steelers 6 championships I guess they're not really that good. LMAO serisouly what kind of dumb f**k argument is that? You cant take away championships. They count more than anything else! Would you be willing to make the same argument if the panthers had won the SB in 2003? Yeah take away that SB title and we've been pretty inconsistent.

Again, you are going outside of the argument. We are talking about the stats in the original post. I am talking about taking away the championships from those stats and it looks a bit closer. Stop trying to make this discussion out to be more than it really is.

Yeah they were really bad with their number one offense and number one amount of takeaways and their 13-3 record.

They haven't been good for very long. This is about the entire period of the stats from the OP.

And you can't take away their championships, that's what really counts. That's all anyone ever remembers. Does anyone remember the 2006 Bears? They were 13-3 with an incredible defense and special teams but got blown out in the super bowl by Indy and no one has said a word about that team since. Has anyone talked about the 2003 Panthers? No, the Patriots won that championship.

I never meant "ignore the championships forever and only consider your team to be good!". I meant, take away those championships from the stats and they look different.

Jesus, why must everyone extrapolate poo from my posts that I didn't even say nor intend?

[Lt Pinkerton]

Jeez.... okay, let's see if we can break this down for everyone. The originator's post was clearly built on which team in the NFCS is the perennial contender. As an aside, he also showed that this division seems to be a contender in the NFC. He used stats to prove his point that since the creation of the division, the Panthers are consistently the team to beat.

You have dismissed this as the premise for his argument citing that being a perennial contender does not matter, but winning the championship is the only true measure.

At this point, I would leave it at that, but because your condescending tone throughout belies a sense of superiority and does away with simple civility. Well, your lack of math skills are on full display for anyone with eyes to see, and your true understanding of the game (and simple statistics for that matter) has made an ass of you. Take your own advice and invest in some reading comprehension and statistics skills. Maybe then you will actually find levity and objectivity in your reasoning.

This would be true if this is what OP claimed. However, his claim is that we have been the "best" team in the division since it's formation in 2002. He did not say most consistent, or highest winning-percentage, because it would be difficult to dispute these with the facts that he provided. However, I think it's very difficult to assume that we are the "best" team in the division when the Saints and Bucs both own a super bowl title, while we are barely ahead of them in the other statistical categories. Perhaps I am putting too much stock in super bowl titles, but that seems to be the most important statistic in my opinion. It's the difference between the Bills and the Steelers as an organization.

[Wither]

This would be true if this is what OP claimed. However, his claim is that we have been the "best" team in the division since it's formation in 2002. He did not say most consistent, or highest winning-percentage, because it would be difficult to dispute these with the facts that he provided. However, I think it's very difficult to assume that we are the "best" team in the division when the Saints and Bucs both own a super bowl title, while we are barely ahead of them in the other statistical categories. Perhaps I am putting too much stock in super bowl titles, but that seems to be the most important statistic in my opinion. It's the difference between the Bills and the Steelers as an organization.

I don't think he intended to say "best" in the sense that the Panthers are better than those teams (which is what "best" means, but just bear with me). I think he meant that the Panthers consistently play better than the rest of the division. The Panthers are better in that category, but as a franchise, perhaps not.

[twylyght]

This would be true if this is what OP claimed. However, his claim is that we have been the "best" team in the division since it's formation in 2002. He did not say most consistent, or highest winning-percentage, because it would be difficult to dispute these with the facts that he provided. However, I think it's very difficult to assume that we are the "best" team in the division when the Saints and Bucs both own a super bowl title, while we are barely ahead of them in the other statistical categories. Perhaps I am putting too much stock in super bowl titles, but that seems to be the most important statistic in my opinion. It's the difference between the Bills and the Steelers as an organization.

His original statement was "somewhat proving we are the best team in the division". Again, given the context we can infer what he was talking about and what he has been trying to talk about ever since that time. People are insisting that what he is talking about is on their terms when he set up the premise of the thread.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that people don't always say exactly what they mean. Some people try to get on here and be the grammatical and English police thinking that they are being clever when they are being nothing more than obstinate, mean-spirited, and in the end self-delusional with their verbal gymnastics.

Rather than trying to bash a guy for trying to have a lucid conversation, try to elucidate all sides of view and make an attempt at civility before tossing it aside for what amounts to a playground cheap shot.

[Wither]

Man I hate the off-season! Can't we find something better to talk about? This stuff makes my head hurt. Is there anybody here that has anything about the team to report other than utter speculation or opinion? Where will I go for news on the team if I can't find it here?

end rant

This could be a decent discussion if people didn't resort to petty arguments and insist on proving a point that does not need to be proven.

[rayzor]

This could be a decent discussion if people didn't resort to petty arguments and insist on proving a point that does not need to be proven...

...and getting all pissy about it.

[PantherBob]

Jeez.... okay, let's see if we can break this down for everyone. The originator's post was clearly built on which team in the NFCS is the perennial contender. As an aside, he also showed that this division seems to be a contender in the NFC. He used stats to prove his point that since the creation of the division, the Panthers are consistently the team to beat.

You have dismissed this as the premise for his argument citing that being a perennial contender does not matter, but winning the championship is the only true measure.

At this point, I would leave it at that, but because your condescending tone throughout belies a sense of superiority and does away with simple civility. Well, your lack of math skills are on full display for anyone with eyes to see, and your true understanding of the game (and simple statistics for that matter) has made an ass of you. Take your own advice and invest in some reading comprehension and statistics skills. Maybe then you will actually find levity and objectivity in your reasoning.

The ops post only proves that all four teams have been equally average. All four teams have had three winning seasons since 2002 which means we have all been the same as far as being contenders. His post does not prove that the panthers have ever been the team to beat when their numbers are all isentical. If you are going to give an edge to anyone it has to be to the ones with the hardware. Skewing facts to make your team look better is something insecure homers do

[PantherBob]

Your "Kiss the ring" argument is tired and brings nothing to the table.

Your pick and choose approach to statistics is not objective.

That's pretty much it.

Kind of like saying we average half a win more so that makes us better

[The Saltman]

G-man ure so funny..

I mean.....

:leaving:

[PantherBob]

G-man ure so funny..

I mean.....

:leaving:

Thems fighting words!

[Lt Pinkerton]

His original statement was "somewhat proving we are the best team in the division". Again, given the context we can infer what he was talking about and what he has been trying to talk about ever since that time. People are insisting that what he is talking about is on their terms when he set up the premise of the thread.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that people don't always say exactly what they mean. Some people try to get on here and be the grammatical and English police thinking that they are being clever when they are being nothing more than obstinate, mean-spirited, and in the end self-delusional with their verbal gymnastics.

Rather than trying to bash a guy for trying to have a lucid conversation, try to elucidate all sides of view and make an attempt at civility before tossing it aside for what amounts to a playground cheap shot.

I wasn't trying to bash anyone, I was just making my argument. I'm sorry if that offended you, that wasn't ever my intention.