How good does the Dline have to be?

[firstdayfan]

I've been reading a lot lately on the current state of our defensive line and while I agree its not even close to what it once was, how good does it really have to be for the defense to be affective?

I looked at the last 5 games of the season (Matt Moore's starts) to see exactly how the defense played in those games with pretty much the starting lineup of Tyler Brayton (still here), Hollis Thomas (space eater), Damian Lewis (savy vet), and Julius Peppers (superstar underachiever). Here's what I found out.

1) We averaged 110 yards allowed rushing per game and 4.02 yards per carry per game over that span. Both of those stats would have been good enough for 13th and 10th in the NFL.

2) The time of possession allowed (which manly pundits feel could be our doom this season) was 28:53 which would have ranked 11th best in the NFL.

3) In that 5 game stretch we collected 10 sacks, and only 3 of those came from Peppers while 4 other sacks came from other defensive linemen (Brayton, Johnson, Brown, and Hayden).

4) In that stretch Peppers had 8 tackles, 3 sacks, and 1 Int, Lewis had 11 tackles, and Thomas had 9 tackles.

So what can we take away from this? I think its safe to say that someone will have to pick up the production from Peppers which was extremely good for this 5 game stretch but not outstanding. The combination of Everette Brown, Charles Johnson, and even Greg Hardy or Eric Norwood should do the trick. I think that while Damian Lewis was a good player for this line I really think that his stats can be duplicated by someone else, although maybe not his experience. And as I stated before Thomas was nothing more than a space eater to free up beason. I feel like Louis Leonard could be that and more.

With all that said I think its important to remember that we weren't necessarily dominant on the defensive line last year either and we went 4-1 in this stretch of games. I think this team is good enough to cover up for one deficient area or weakness. And if you don't believe just look at those 5 games (although don't look too hard at the New Orleans game). It was virtually the exact same back 7 that will be taking the field this year.

Thoughts?

[thefuzz]

Trust me, there is a reason that DE's are among the highest paid positions in the NFL.

Also, it's no fluke that dominate DT's break the bank as well....Jenkins, Suh, Haynesworth....

A good D line is very very important to long term success. Being able to get off the field in 3rd and short, and goal line stands are often the deciding factors in games, especially if you rely on a run first offensive scheme.

[firstdayfan]

I agree with you 100% and teams like the Jets are really, really good for that reason. But I guess my point is that we don't HAVE to be extremely talented on the defensive line to have a successful season. I feel like we can win games and while there will be times when we will be pulling our hair out at the 25-30 yard runs on 3rd and 3, I still think we can win more than 8 or 9 games. The defensive line does not have to be dominant in this scheme or for this team, we are good enough in other areas (running backs, offensive line, linebackers) to mask a few weaknesses.

[SnarkAttack]

Makes you reminesce for the days when we rotated Jenkins, Lewis and Kemo and had Peppers and Brayton coming off the ends - wow....

[panthers55]

People talk about those last 5 games as if we were dominant all the way through and we were far from it particularly the first 2 games. Tampa takes a rookie quarterback who puts up 321 yards on us in the air and they run for another 154 as well. That is almost 500 yards we gave up in one game. Without heroics by the secondary and linebackers and Tampa handing us 5 Ints, we lose that game very easily. Then the next week we go to New Englans and give up 200 yards in the air and another 150 on the ground again. Meanwhile we score a pedestrian 16 against Tampa and 10 against New England. Honestly we should be 0-2 in that stretch. It was a gift to be 1-1.

Finally the offense picked it up and so did the defense as well and we played 2 complete games against Minnesota and the Giants. If you look at the numbers you will note that Peppers had a big role in this. He had a few sacks but lots of pressures and when they started to double team him it opened up other things for other guys.

And lastly the New Orleans games was hardly an indicator of anything without Brees.

So to assume that the defensive line doesn't need to be that good since we are going with many of the guys that played the last five games, asumes that we were that good in the last 5 games and we clearly weren't. We had 2 good games, 2 poor games and one hard to judge. If Brees plays the last game and Freeman doesn't give us so many gifts, we could have easily been looking at 2-3 during those last 5 games.

The defensive line was good for 2 of those 5 games over that stretch. I really doubt that will get it done this year. If the defensive line doesn't play at least as well as last year, they better hope the offense picks up the slack. I don't mean to break anyone's bubble but the notion that we were dominant in those last 5 games is easily refuted by the basic facts.

[CRA]

this is a Fox and Meeks defense. The DL has always been extremely important for both of them. If the DL sucks, so will Carolina. We won't be able to cover guys and will be picked apart and it will put a much bigger stress on what should be a good offense.

[Peppers90 NC]

Makes you reminesce for the days when we rotated Jenkins, Lewis and Kemo and had Peppers and Brayton coming off the ends - wow....

Brayton never played with Jenkins. Maybe you are thinking of Rucker? If so, you wouldnt be thinking of Lewis and Kemo. Our 03 line was definitely our best, even tho Peppers only had 7.5 sacks.

[CRA]

Brayton never played with Jenkins. Maybe you are thinking of Rucker? If so, you wouldnt be thinking of Lewis and Kemo. Our 03 line was definitely our best, even tho Peppers only had 7.5 sacks.

02 was pretty tough as well.

[Peppers90 NC]

02 was pretty tough as well.

Definitely, except giving up 71 points in 2 games to Atlanta. Twas a team effort though.

[Baschski]

As good as our back 7 is, we have a little bit of breathing room up front.

[Peppers90 NC]

As good as our back 7 is, we have a little bit of breathing room up front.

There has been enough changes for us to actually doubt this imo.

[Baschski]

There has been enough changes for us to actually doubt this imo.

Nah, Gamble/Marshall is one of the top Cornerback duos in the league and our LB's are still top notch even without Davis. The only question is at safety, but I think we will be fine there. Godfrey is better than most people here give him credit for and really elevated his play towards the end of the season--I think he's in for a breakout year. Martin showed that he absolutely has the athleticism and the talent to make plays as a starter. As long as Gamble can be a leader in the secondary I think we'll have a pretty tough defense once again.

[BF91]

Our defensive line has to be good enough to consistently stop the run and put decent pressure on the QB. With an improved secondary, we're going to hear the term "coverage sack" thrown around, but our ends still have to get to the QB.

[CRA]

Nah, Gamble/Marshall is one of the top Cornerback duos in the league and our LB's are still top notch even without Davis. The only question is at safety, but I think we will be fine there. Godfrey is better than most people here give him credit for and really elevated his play towards the end of the season--I think he's in for a breakout year. Martin showed that he absolutely has the athleticism and the talent to make plays as a starter. As long as Gamble can be a leader in the secondary I think we'll have a pretty tough defense once again.

they aren't a top duo. Marshall is a nickel corner. I would not be surprised if Captain took his job at some point this year. Well, I take that back....wiht Fox you never know. Also, we have no clue who 2 of the 3 starters at LB will be right now.

I don't think Gamble is a leader. That is getting into Peppers territorty where you expect players to be something they aren't. Gamble is going to play corner and do a decent job. You can't ask him to lead. He would have done it by now if he was that type player.