Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Panthers Top 15 Paid Players at Position

kungfoodude
 Share

Recommended Posts

Panthering Mentor

Panthering

Posted
Posted

Regardless of positional value and all that at least I like all of these players except for the Safety I don't know anything about. Good culture guys from top to bottom there who want to actually try and build something up in Charlotte.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
kornicova Newbie

kornicova

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We did have an option(trade) but I do get that replacement is basically draft or nothing. 

I agree we criminally overpay on past performance(see CMC deal as a result example) but I don't know that gambling on quite literally the highest DB contract in NFL history is a good idea. Especially because of those healthy issues. Even more so because....he really hasn't consistently been elite.

I love the player and I absolutely want to keep him around but the money is going to make that pretty difficult. If he spends the next two seasons dinged up again, he's probably literally going to be a cap casualty with no real compensation at all.

It's just way more in the freewheel gambling realm than I am comfortable with.

Yeah I'm with you. It is a huge risk, no doubt about that. 

When you look at the sticker price it also seems a lot worse than when you look at the Percentage of the cap. Looking at some very overly simple numbers on OTC if you compare JC's average annual salary of $25M it equals about 9% of the cap this year. Back in 2022 (just picked a random year) that would be about 5th on the list for CBs. So I don't think the contract is as bad as it might seem when you strictly look at the numbers.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

If only there were some mechanism for exchanging players for draft picks.

Im mean sure you can be smug about your answer, but you are only getting maybe a 2nd for him. Now you need to completely rebuild the entire secondary on top of the d-line. Yeah that sounds great. 

  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

Posted
Posted

I think a lot of people dont actually understand the business of the NFL and thats clear when they say things like "he's only a top 15 player, why is he getting paid #1 money?!"

Cause thats how it works.. If you are an elite player nearing Free Agency then you will get paid top of the market. Its literally that simple. You dont need to be the best to get paid the best. Its timing. 

If you dont understand that, then probably best to stay away from most business related discussions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
  • Author
Posted
14 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Horn is one of the top corners in the league.  GTFH with that

Based on what exactly?

This is sort of the crux of one of the issues. Even when he has played, he hasn't been an elite CB. A very good one, yes but he hasn't posted much in the way of consistently elite play or numbers or metrics or anything. 

Don't get it twisted, the ability is absolutely there but we are paying him for future elite play, not past elite pay. That's a gamble.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

I think a lot of people dont actually understand the business of the NFL and thats clear when they say things like "he's only a top 15 player, why is he getting paid #1 money?!"

Cause thats how it works.. If you are an elite player nearing Free Agency then you will get paid top of the market. Its literally that simple. You dont need to be the best to get paid the best. Its timing. 

If you dont understand that, then probably best to stay away from most business related discussions. 

Oh I am not saying he wasnt not going to get paid, he had morgan bent over, I am simply pointing out he is probably a top 10ish corner in the nfl

Edited by mrcompletely11
  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
  • Author
Posted
10 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

Im mean sure you can be smug about your answer, but you are only getting maybe a 2nd for him. Now you need to completely rebuild the entire secondary on top of the d-line. Yeah that sounds great. 

I don't know if that is true or not. Probably no one does because I don't think the Panthers FO ever listened to any offers for him.

It doesn't really matter anyway, it's not like the Burns deal where a leak laid it all bare. Horn is here to stay. We just have to hope he stays healthy and proves to be worth the money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

maybe moving forward but certainly not from the previous 4 years.  The best ability is availability

True. So you can say that he is not worth the money because he has missed a bunch of games - and thats a fair argument. But you can also say that when he is available he is 'one of' the best CB's in the league. 

But now you need to value that. I doubt that he takes a deal worth less then he did (obviously) so then you need to determine is the draft pick we are going to get back for him worth it. 

So you can do what we did, or you can trade the player, thereby making the defence worse, but you have most cap space sitting there. 

So on sundays when we are getting blown out, you can still feel good that we have a lot of cap space. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

I think a lot of people dont actually understand the business of the NFL and thats clear when they say things like "he's only a top 15 player, why is he getting paid #1 money?!"

Cause thats how it works.. If you are an elite player nearing Free Agency then you will get paid top of the market. Its literally that simple. You dont need to be the best to get paid the best. Its timing. 

If you dont understand that, then probably best to stay away from most business related discussions. 

I think you have a very simplistic view of a pretty complex system, hence why you are getting emotional and confused.

The league is going through a market adjustment period for several reasons(COVID cap freeze, new TV deal, etc) but paying top dollar for players that aren't clearly elite isn't typically a wise long term investment, regardless of market changes.

Overpays literally happen every single offseason. We should know, we have done it over and over. Miles Sanders, Ian Thomas, CMC, etc, etc.

Edited by kungfoodude
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

Posted
Posted
Just now, kungfoodude said:

I think you have a very simplistic view of a pretty complex system, hence why you are getting emotional and confused.

The league is going through a market adjustment period for several reasons(COVID cap freeze, new TV deal, etc) but paying top dollar for players that aren't clearly elite isn't typically a wise long term investment, regardless of market changes.

Overpays literally happene every single offseason. We should know, we have done it over and over. Miles Sanders, Ian Thomas, CMC, etc, etc.

I get that my example was not exhaustive of all the reasons, but it also is that simple (generally). Which is why some teams pay players years before the get to FA to save some money and bet that the player continues to develop. 

And I understand your point about Horn, but I dont think we are in a position to allow players of his caliber to leave. We had no succession plan for him. Had we let him go and Mike Jackson was our #1 corner on the team I might throw up.

So we need to over pay to get some stability - and hope the injuries are behind us. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • tukafan21
      Panthers NFC South Champs!

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      I gave you a full breakdown and examples from last year as to why I think it's unfair to expect 1k from T-Mac this year if everyone stays healthy. But the TLDR version is we will have 4 legitimately good WRs next year, most rookies who get to 1,000 yards don't have any others on the team with them let alone 3 others, it will be hard for him to put up 1k with out the others being injured or falling short of expectations themselves, but in 2026 without Thielen it's different.
    • TD alt
      Panthers sign Hunter Renfrow

      By TD alt · Posted

      Ulcerative Colitis is not CTE. 
    • tukafan21
      Panthers NFC South Champs!

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      Last year Thielen had 615 yards in 10 games (had more ypg than his 1k season in 23).  XL had 497 in 16 games with tons of drops and Coker had 478 in 11. They also only had only 192 of our 518 targets to get those numbers. So if Thielen has 1,000 yards again, XL and Coker each improve to say 600 yards each, and T-Mac comes in at 800 yards, you're going to say that's not good enough?  Especially if he ends up with close to, if not getting to, double digit TD's like I think he will, as he's going to be a red zone monster for Bryce? Because if that's the breakdown of just the Top 4 and Bryce plays all 17 games, he's going to be pushing a 4,000 yard season as the TEs, RBs, and other WRs will probably add up to 750-1k yards as well, and I think that would be far more than anyone here could be expecting of him this season. Last year the Giants only had 2 players with more than 331 yards besides Nabers and they were 699 and 573 while Nabers "only" had 1,200 yards (granted in 15 games).  While the Jags second leading receiving was a TE with 411 yards and BTJ also "only" had 1,282 but in all 17 games. If everyone stays healthy and XL/Coker have improved, I think Bryce is going to spread the ball around rather than focus on T-Mac in a way that most of the 1k rookies have been able to get. Again I point to MHJ and the Cardinals last year. They had 3,859 yards receiving.   McBride had 1,146, MHJ had 885, then their 3rd and 4th in rec yards were 548 and 414. Take the 146 and 85 that McBride/MHJ had over my example for our guys and give them to the other two and they get to 7 yards shy of the 600 I'm using for XL/Coker, while the rest of the team added up to 866 yards. So, if you expect T-Mac to get to 1k, where are you taking those yards from? if anything, XL and Coker each getting 600 yards seems like a low projection, so they wouldn't come from there. Maybe they come from Thielen now that we have T-Mac as the true #1.  But I think if anything, having T-Mac draw attention will just make it easier for Thielen to get open and him and Bryce have great chemistry already, he's not going to stop throwing his way if he can pick up easy chunks of yards there. So maybe they come from the RBs, TEs, other WRs, but it's I think a very fair example to show why expecting 1,000 yards if everyone stays healthy isn't necessarily fair to him. It's also why I said I'd then expect at least 1,200 yards in 2026, as once Thielen leave and all 3 of T-Mac/XL/Coker get better, they absorb that 1,000 yards Thielen leaves behind with T-Mac probably taking close to half of it and the other two splitting up the other half.
×
×
  • Create New...