Potential Head Coaches

[davos]

It was only a matter of time before someone did that. Andrew Luck probably won't be far behind :sosp:

The beat writers would tell you otherwise.

As to Seifert, the hindsight view we have of him is a complete 180 from how he was viewed in the late 90s. He had the best winning percentage of any coach in NFL history. Not only had Seifert's teams never had a losing season. They'd never won fewer than ten games. Add in that they were pretty much never one and done in the playoffs (1995 was the only exception) and he'd collected two Super Bowl rings in just over a third the time it took Bill Cowher to get one.

You're right that there's no comparison. Seifert's 1999 resume' blows Cowher's away.

Ah, but he didn't duplicate that success away from the 49ers system, did he? So why would we assume that Cowher can duplicate the success he had with the Steelers when that Steelers organization won another Super Bowl with a neophyte head coach just a short time removed from Cowher's departure? Is Mike Tomlin really just that good, or is he benefiting from the same support system that Cowher did?

As mentioned elsewhere, Jerry Richardson has always held the philosophy that it's better to build your own star than acquire someone else's. Practically speaking, why pay big money for a guy that's made a name already but might not have the same success he had elsewhere when you can pay less for a guy that's still hungry to make a name for himself?

Put it all together. Seifert was a disaster. Capers and Fox both had more success. Seifert came in with even better credentials than Cowher. And again, there's that thing that no one who's won with one organization has ever won with a different team.

With all that known, where's the compelling case to pay Cowher umpteen million a year?

Kevin Greene makes a good point, and you're right, you can't compare the two. But identifying the reason behind why Seifert did so bad with Carolina is much different with figuring out why he did so well in San Fran which you quite eloquently put together in your post.

So, I don't know why they would spend a lot of money on Cowher considering the other candidates, but my not knowing doesn't magically make it not a possibility. The whole spend less philosophy that we read into JR is way overblown which was (imo) solely for the lockout and Fox's situation. I can totally see him spending money next year and you out of anybody should know the difference between investing money in a coach v. investing money in a lot of players.

oh and edit: I wasn't saying Cowher can duplicate his success...I was saying don't brush off the possibility (not saying its dead set on happening) that becomes our HC. As I mentioned, I think a lot of us our blinding ourselves from this possibility because it has been discussed more than any other subject over the past few years

[Mr. Scot]

Everything Seifert and the 49ers did was skewed by the lack of no salary cap and Eddie Debartelo's willingness to spend more money than other owners.

That I agree with. As time went by and the cap really began to take hold, the Niners fell apart.

With that said, the Steelers haven't missed a beat with Cowher gone. Add in that their Super Bowl win came after Cowher was overruled on drafting Roethlisberger.

There are system coaches, same as their are system QBs. I've yet to be convinced Cowher isn't an example of that.

[davos]

That I agree with. As time went by and the cap really began to take hold, the Niners fell apart.

With that said, the Steelers haven't missed a beat with Cowher gone. Add in that their Super Bowl win came after Cowher was overruled on drafting Roethlisberger.

There are system coaches, same as their are system QBs. I've yet to be convinced Cowher isn't an example of that.

So, this assumption that you have made makes it highly unlikely he doesn't even get an interview? Are you JR? I'm missing something here.

I've mentioned countless times Grimm, Heimerdinger, & Butler are my top choices...but wanted to remind people Cowher is still a possibility. I'm not trying to jump on some mindless bandwagon for the guy. but your saying now he is somehow completely off the table? I say people are tired talking about the guy.

[magnus]

But simply because of a failed Seifert experiment? I just think it's ridiculous to compare Cowher to Seifert. Seifert was Walsh's successor, did well for a long time, but Cowher has shown he is much more capable of actually building a team. I just think people have talked about Cowher for so long that the idea of him as HC now has everybody saying he's either overrated or just not the right choice, when its really because they've been talking about this for 3 + years non stop.

In reality, its still a very likely scenario imo

George got a raw deal here, to a point. Yes, there's stories of him being aloof and out of contact. He was also dealing with what was at the time a meddling owner.

Certainly I agree that vet coaches shouldn't be out of bounds because of GS's 2001. I think the hype of many vet coaches has reached critical mass, however. Even Cowher, who's stated he wants a QB in place, just doesn't seem a great fit. This is, better or worse, an established team that has criteria in place - likely including what defense, and likely including building with (if not around) a young QB already on this roster. That's much more easily manipulated with a young HC candidate, and to also disappoint the resident Zimmer guy, most likely not a highly experienced coordinator. It'll also mandate working with an existing GM.

If I were to guess an exception to the above, it's Dungy, and I have no idea if he's really looking to get back in.

[Mr. Scot]

It's not so much a 'spend less" philosophy as it is a "spend wisely" one.

Both Dom Capers and John Fox got decent extensions after Richardson felt they'd earned them. Sadly, Capers' payday was a tad premature.

Still, the idea was solid. Bring them in while they're on the rise. let them prove that they can win in this environment. Then pay them the big money. that way, even if they don't succeed, you haven't blown a big wad of cash.

It's the same principle they apply to players by preferring draftees over free agents.

[Mr. Scot]

That's much more easily manipulated with a young HC candidate, and to also disappoint the resident Zimmer guy, most likely not a highly experienced coordinator. It'll also mandate working with an existing GM.

I jumped ship.

Right now I think the most likely guy to get the job is Grimm, but the guy I'd prefer get the job is Harbaugh.

Still would be happy with Zimmer as a DC though.

[davos]

George got a raw deal here, to a point. Yes, there's stories of him being aloof and out of contact. He was also dealing with what was at the time a meddling owner.

Certainly I agree that vet coaches shouldn't be out of bounds because of GS's 2001. I think the hype of many vet coaches has reached critical mass, however. Even Cowher, who's stated he wants a QB in place, just doesn't seem a great fit. This is, better or worse, an established team that has criteria in place - likely including what defense, and likely including building with (if not around) a young QB already on this roster. That's much more easily manipulated with a young HC candidate, and to also disappoint the resident Zimmer guy, most likely not a highly experienced coordinator. It'll also mandate working with an existing GM.

If I were to guess an exception to the above, it's Dungy, and I have no idea if he's really looking to get back in.

Great points on why Cowher may not actually fit here.

I personally think a young coach would bring energy that a retread really can't because its completely fresh. I'm definitely not rejecting Harbaugh or any of the young candidates (Winston Moss is quite enticing), but I'm not trying to come to a conclusion who I want here just yet mainly because I don't want to become disappointed...so I'm trying to keep an open mind about all possibilities.

[frash.exe]

George got a raw deal here, to a point. Yes, there's stories of him being aloof and out of contact. He was also dealing with what was at the time a meddling owner.

Certainly I agree that vet coaches shouldn't be out of bounds because of GS's 2001. I think the hype of many vet coaches has reached critical mass, however.

wait, so Seifert isn't really 100% pure evil and the devil's spawn like everybody has made him out to be since 2002?

[davos]

It's not so much a 'spend less" philosophy as it is a "spend wisely" one.

Both Dom Capers and John Fox got decent extensions after Richardson felt they'd earned them. Sadly, Capers' payday was a tad premature.

Still, the idea was solid. Bring them in while they're on the rise. let them prove that they can win in this environment. Then pay them the big money. that way, even if they don't succeed, you haven't blown a big wad of cash.

It's the same principle they apply to players by preferring draftees over free agents.

Spending wisely is a fundamental responsibility of any NFL owner. Its just very difficult to be consistent considering the amount of risks an owner takes v. the financially conservative decisions. Its all about correctly balancing the two, and who's to say that can't be balanced with a retread coming in and getting him a pretty contract. It's a risk either way going young or old...but the $ can no doubt overshadow the situation.

[methodtoll]

I ask all you panther fans a question when determining who becomes head coach....

Did you expect Fox or Capers to become Carolina head coaches?

Were they your first choice amongst the candidate wish list?

Just wondering...

[rippadonn]

It would be kinda cool to have a former Panther player coach this team.

Harbaugh is also offensive minded and can obviously groom young QBs.

[davos]

It was only a matter of time before someone did that. Andrew Luck probably won't be far behind :sosp:

The beat writers would tell you otherwise.

As to Seifert, the hindsight view we have of him is a complete 180 from how he was viewed in the late 90s. He had the best winning percentage of any coach in NFL history. Not only had Seifert's teams never had a losing season. They'd never won fewer than ten games. Add in that they were pretty much never one and done in the playoffs (1995 was the only exception) and he'd collected two Super Bowl rings in just over a third the time it took Bill Cowher to get one.

You're right that there's no comparison. Seifert's 1999 resume' blows Cowher's away.

Ah, but he didn't duplicate that success away from the 49ers system, did he? So why would we assume that Cowher can duplicate the success he had with the Steelers when that Steelers organization won another Super Bowl with a neophyte head coach just a short time removed from Cowher's departure?

And also, I never said he could duplicate the success...again just saying he should still be considered a likely candidate. Also, all I said was Seifert was Walsch's successor, nothing more, nothing less. He didn't do too well here, I experienced it, was at every home game that year like most. But again, you continue to compare the two. I simply said you shouldn't and Cowher can build a team.

[Mr. Scot]

So, this assumption that you have made makes it highly unlikely he doesn't even get an interview? Are you JR? I'm missing something here.

I've mentioned countless times Grimm, Heimerdinger, & Butler are my top choices...but wanted to remind people Cowher is still a possibility. I'm not trying to jump on some mindless bandwagon for the guy. but your saying now he is somehow completely off the table? I say people are tired talking about the guy.

Comments from the beat writers...

Not that he won't coach here, they won't hire him. RT @jis2cool Why do you think Cowher won't coach us!? Offer proof or I don't believe you.

Darin Gantt (via Twitter)

Fans are going to clamor for a big-name coach like Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher, but the Panthers have been down that road before with George Seifert and it was a disaster. However, if the Panthers could persuade Tony Dungy out of retirement, he might be an exception to the rule.

Still, I get an overriding sense from those in the organization that owner Jerry Richardson will go with a hot offensive or defensive coordinator prospect or possibly take a chance on a college coach.

Steve Reed (Gaston Gazette)

Don’t get your hopes too high on big names. If Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden or Tony Dungy want to coach, it will be elsewhere. With the labor situation likely to still be unsolved, Richardson is not going to pay the kind of money one of the big names would command.

He was burned by that once before when he hired George Seifert. Besides, a big-name coach isn’t necessarily what the Panthers need right now. They’ve got a fan base that’s not very happy and they need a coach who will bring in fresh air and also be a bit of a cheerleader.

Pat Yasinskas (ESPN Blog)

Fowler and Sorenson have said similar things. Not sure Person has ever commented on it. If he did, I missed it. From what I recall, even Charles Chandler discounted the idea.

Bottom Line: Nobody with inside access takes the idea seriously.

If the guys who actually get to talk to people within the organization don't take it seriously, why should we?

[davos]

Comments from the beat writers...

Darin Gantt (via Twitter)

Steve Reed (Gaston Gazette)

Pat Yasinskas (ESPN Blog)

Fowler and Sorenson have said similar things. Not sure Person has ever commented on it. If he did, I missed it. From what I recall, even Charles Chandler discounted the idea.

Bottom Line: Nobody with inside access takes the idea seriously.

If the guys who actually get to talk to people within the organization don't take it seriously, why should we?

Again, I'm just saying its a possibility. I don't see why viewing him as a potential candidate is so wrong. If he's not hired, which could easily happen given the sources, I lose no sleep. If the labor situation picks up and is resolved, and we somehow sign him, I lose no sleep. I'm losing no sleep. But I'm about to go to sleep. Good conversation Scot