Hurney shouldn't be fired for two main reasons

[Lakejamescat]

No doubt they got extremely lucky with Brady. Chance favors the prepared man as the saying goes but I get what you mean.

But NE has done smart moves to align themselves to get the value where they need with out over spending for talent in areas that many teams hamstrung themselves with bad contracts or for positions that didn't need the money.

NE,Pit and Philly do a great job of keeping the dollars on the right spots while using players by committee's in other areas to maximize BOTH time and talent.

Again, I don't think Hurney is that bad a GM.

I also believe that MH does a good job of communicating with the media via radio interviews and also with his candid comments. I may not agree with some decisions on talent but that may not be a one person decision.

[Kevin Greene]

No doubt they got extremely lucky with Brady. Chance favors the prepared man as the saying goes but I get what you mean.

But NE has done smart moves to align themselves to get the value where they need with out over spending for talent in areas that many teams hamstrung themselves with bad contracts or for positions that didn't need the money.

NE,Pit and Philly do a great job of keeping the dollars on the right spots while using players by committee's in other areas to maximize BOTH time and talent.

Again, I don't think Hurney is that bad a GM.

What New England's FO does is just so far and away better than what the Panther's FO does year to year. The best team in the league this year and yet the Pats have two 1sts, two 2nds and two 3rds in this years upcoming draft.

The rest of the league says Ouch.

[mwright350]

It's not just better than what the Panthers do - it's better than what everyone does.

[mav1234]

the patriots have a great FO, but so much of that is caused by having the best quarterback and best coach in the game. They are capable of personnel moves other teams just couldn't afford (Randy Moss trade anyone??).

It's good to try to aim to be the Patriots and all, but you have to be realistic about the situation we are facing versus what they are.

[Fiz]

Bill Polian

Tom Dimitroff

AJ Smith

Scott Pioli

Mike Tannenbaum

First 5 to come to my head in about 10 seconds.

lol thomas dimitroff

[Saint J]

i'm not sure that they have one above average player on that defense, Smith is just an excellent coach.

[Ohio]

I can go on and on, and on, but your lack of understanding would have you, once again, failing to grasp anything of importance.

I'll shred your pathetic attempt at a response. This is what you said...

1. Bringing in Keyshawn Johnson- MISTAKEWe needed a vet that could produce opposite of Steve Smith. He did. Just cause we didn't win a championship that year, it was mistake by Hurney?

2. David Carr-MISTAKEThe intention when grabbing Carr, is that he'd ride the bench for at least a season..instead he was thrust into the lineup (due to injury) still battered from the beating he took behind Houston's turnstyle. Oh yeah, that's definitely Hurney's mistake!

3. Dwayne Jarrett- MISTAKEA pick didn't pan out? OMG, that is Hurney's fault!

4. Jimmy Clausen/ Trade- MISTAKEWe didn't trade for Clausen, that is your mistake.

5. Armanti Edwards/ Trade- MISTAKEThe player has yet to have a chance to make an impact, good, bad, or otherwise. That's your mistake for your impatience and lack of understanding.

6. Peppers gone- Best Player in FRANCHISE History- MistakePeppers was offered the richest contract in the NFL for ANY defensive player. Peppers decided not to sign. He decided to go else where. Just cause you wanted the team to slap the tag on him, and try to push a trade, doesn't make it a mistake either.

7. Letting Muhsin Muhammad go- MISTAKEMoose got paid $30+ million to go play for the Bears. He wasn't worth that to this team, but that's Hurney's mistake also?

- Why bring in Keyshawn for 1 damn year? What is the logic in doing that? If he was so good during that 1 year, why not bring him back? Stupid mistake, 1 year, thats a joke.

- Why bring in Carr, who you admitted was a battered QB? Why even grab him, why not a rookie in the draft? You must have liked bringing in battered QB's for some reason...

- Jarrett Is Hurneys fault, you wasted a 2nd round pick, I

- Once again, we took Clausen in the 2nd round, now were going to draft Luck, Clausen wont see the field, wasted pick.

- Armanti is so bad he cant even see the field. You gave up a 2nd round pick for him, if you expect that 2nd rounder to play, then you better damn well expect him to play.

- Hurney shutdown talks during the season when Peppers wanted to talk. His fault.

-Muhammad led the league in TD's and Yards at WR his last year with us, so he was pretty damn good. He was needed on the team OBVIOUSLY. Only ignorant people would say "he isn't needed on this team" when he led the league in yards and tds.

I wont respond to you anymore. Take notes and try better

[Saint J]

lol the big ten got raped and got their chests poo on at midfield

[pantherclaw]

I HATE this f***ing excuse for the Delhomme extension...Delhomme pretty much single-handily ruined our whole 2009 season yet it didn't hurt the Panthers

The owner loses 10 billion dollars, but that doesn't matter at all? Wake the hell up!

And I don't even wanna discuss the fact that Delhomme didn't even DESERVE that contract extension...

Tell us how that contract extension ruined that season. He would have played with or without that extension. Without that extension, we wouldn't have been able to sign our rookies, but that doesn't bother you. Cause you are to damn ignorant to know 2 plus 2 equals 4. Posts like yours are why there isn't much to talk about. You'd rather talk out your ass until you're dead, than admit the truth.

I wish society wouldn't continue to protect the weak and ignorant. If you were in the plains of africa, you wouldn't even had made it to the age to procreate.

[Catalyst]

Hurney's never missed on a 1st round pick; that has to count for something. I suppose you can make the argument that Everette Brown was a miss, but the jury's still out to a degree and he was a 2nd round pick, even if we gave up a 1st rounder for him.

There aren't many teams that can say the same. Has he made his share of mistakes? Sure. But compared to other NFL GM's he's far from the worst.

[Cyberjag]

Obviously the logical move after Peppers failed to sign an extension in 2007 would have been to let him walk.

Julius Peppers last year of his contract pre FT was 14 million plus change. With a minimum mandatory 20% increase this is how the Panthers ended up paying him what they did during the FT years.

This number was too high to start with to play the game the Panthers did with Peppers. Franchise Tag peppers fine, if he won't sign in a timely fashion you pull the FT offer off the table and let him walk. You don't go into July where Peppers knows he either signs the FT contarct or plays for no one that year. By that time you've already ruined the teams opportunity to make any meaningful moves that year.

This is why you see teams use the FT tag on kickers at times, the number is low and the FT tag actually works in your favor. Peppers agent is a genius getting him $37 million over 2 years for 12.5 sacks a year if you think about it for just 1 minute.

I shudder to think how you would have reacted if they did let him walk. You don't let your star player go without making an effort to re-sign him, not ever. let's review:

• He had a year left on his contract, and they tried to extend him and make him the NFL's highest paid player. He said no.
  
• They brought him back to play the last year of his contract, knowing they would have to re-sign him at the end of the year. He played well, they went 12-4
  
• They tried to sign him again. He said no. They franchised him and tried to work something out. He refused to sign his tender until the last possible minute, which prevented them from working out a trade.
  

So, in your world after 2007 we should have known he would screw us over like that, and we should have released him. And I'm sure if they had done that you would be citing Hurney's choice to release his all-pro defensive end with no compensation as evidence of his superior GM skills. Right... :blush5:

I HATE this f***ing excuse for the Delhomme extension...Delhomme pretty much single-handily ruined our whole 2009 season yet it didn't hurt the Panthers

The owner loses 10 billion dollars, but that doesn't matter at all? Wake the hell up!

And I don't even wanna discuss the fact that Delhomme didn't even DESERVE that contract extension...

The owner paid out 10 million (with an M) extra, and it gave the Panthers freedom to sign other players. At NFL Payroll levels, that's almost a rounding error when you're in an uncapped year.

And if JR minded, why didn't he boot Hurney instead of, or with Fox? The bottom line is that it was nifty Salary Cap work. You don't like the details, and that's fine. But it was a creative solution to a complex problem.

No doubt they got extremely lucky with Brady. Chance favors the prepared man as the saying goes but I get what you mean.

But NE has done smart moves to align themselves to get the value where they need with out over spending for talent in areas that many teams hamstrung themselves with bad contracts or for positions that didn't need the money.

NE,Pit and Philly do a great job of keeping the dollars on the right spots while using players by committee's in other areas to maximize BOTH time and talent.

Again, I don't think Hurney is that bad a GM.

I also think that the Patriots benefit from getting to play Buffalo, Miami, and the Jets twice a year. Put a stud QB anywhere in the NFC West and watch people start talking about how great that team's entire organization is.

[Kevin Greene]

I shudder to think how you would have reacted if they did let him walk. You don't let your star player go without making an effort to re-sign him, not ever. let's review:

• He had a year left on his contract, and they tried to extend him and make him the NFL's highest paid player. He said no.
  
• They brought him back to play the last year of his contract, knowing they would have to re-sign him at the end of the year. He played well, they went 12-4
  
• They tried to sign him again. He said no. They franchised him and tried to work something out. He refused to sign his tender until the last possible minute, which prevented them from working out a trade.
  

So, in your world after 2007 we should have known he would screw us over like that, and we should have released him. And I'm sure if they had done that you would be citing Hurney's choice to release his all-pro defensive end with no compensation as evidence of his superior GM skills. Right... :blush5:

You don't have to shudder about anything.

The Panthers offered to extend Peppers and make him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. He wouldn't sign the contract after taking 2007 off. You remember 2007 right? 2.5 sacks, Peppers did not want to play in Carolina anymore. So in 2008 we put the FT on Peppers, and surprise, surprise, he wouldn't sign that contract either waiting until well past the draft and free agency to sign when Pepper's only choice was to play for the Panthers for a year (at 17 million) or sit the year ouit. Of course he played.

You don't have to be able to predict the future that after 2007 things would not work with Peppers. You can Franchise Tag a player when the numbers make sense, as the Panthers recently did with Jordan Gross @ 7.45 million. But when the numbers are escalating from 17 million to 20 million and then beyond you are not in position to effectively use the Tag. The only smart play if you wanted to FT Peppers for 2008 wouild be to apply the tag, if he signs in a timely fashion you can then trade him as the Patriots did Matt Cassel to the Chiefs after he signed his FT contract. If he won't sign in a timely matter you wirthdraw the contract, plan on how you're going to utilize all that extra cap space and wait for your 3rd round compensatory pick the following year.

Or you bend over as the Panthers did during the 2009 season, completely paralized by Peppers and start the year 4-7. Things would likely be quite different if without Peppers the Panthers spent that $20 million infusing 3 or 4 really good Free Agents into the starting lineup.

[Cyberjag]

You got your history off by a year. We tagged him in 2009, not 2008. And the rest is correct, we tagged him once and then did not because the numbers didn't make sense.

In that situation, we did everything we could outside of paying him 20+ million per season to try and get him to stay, and all along the way he talked out of both sides of his mouth and was pretty much completely uncooperative with the front office.

And you seem to know this, as you mention "if he signs in a timely fashion" as part of the process. He wouldn't--which prevented us from even inquiring about a trade with other teams.

So basically Hurney did what you said he should, as your example starts a year early. And Peppers wouldn't work with him, so we lost the opportunity to trade him.

[Kevin Greene]

You got your history off by a year. We tagged him in 2009, not 2008. And the rest is correct, we tagged him once and then did not because the numbers didn't make sense.

In that situation, we did everything we could outside of paying him 20+ million per season to try and get him to stay, and all along the way he talked out of both sides of his mouth and was pretty much completely uncooperative with the front office.

And you seem to know this, as you mention "if he signs in a timely fashion" as part of the process. He wouldn't--which prevented us from even inquiring about a trade with other teams.

So basically Hurney did what you said he should, as your example starts a year early. And Peppers wouldn't work with him, so we lost the opportunity to trade him.

Jeez, we FT'd him after the 2008 season for 2009.

If Hurney had done what he should have he'd have pulled the FT contract off the table when Peppers wouldn't sign in a timeline that was beneficial to us, or not FT'd Pep at all as he did last year after the 2009 season for the year 2010. The only time Peppers was under our control to trade him was during the 2008 season in the last year of his contract. Hurney blew that window, even though Peppers had already refuseed to sign an extension after the 2007 season. Again, making a move as the Patriots did with Richard Seymour or pulling the FT contract once Peppers would not sign it in a timeline that was advantageous to the Panthers would have been the correct moves. Very simple.