Cam Character Issue?

[blackcatgrowl]

did you even read the article, blackcatgrowl? or did you just zoom to certain areas to bitch about? It certainly didn't say "don't draft him cause he has tickets!!!"

NFL teams are going to look into everything, including that, but I doubt tickets will weigh heavy on their mind. Ultimately the tickets had little to do with the article's decision, either :P

I read the entire thing. The guy says he's not there to make judgement calls, but present the facts.

Well, these facts are completely irrelevant. I bet if we dug into the traffic violation background for some big name starting QBs in the NFL FROM THEIR TEENS and early twenties, you'd find a whole list of traffic violations.

Its a completely asinine and misleading train of thought to "expose" minor traffic violations as a character flaw. Anyone who brings this up as a talking point about a potential NFL player deserves some serious ridicule as a fan of the sport. And I DOUBT highly any NFL team is going to consider his traffic tickets in their evaluations.

Next thing you know, we'll see a video of him kicking the neighbor's dog that is barking at him on his own property, and PETA will be boycotting whatever team drafts him.

Ridiculous.:willy_nilly:

[mav1234]

I read the entire thing. The guy says he's not there to make judgement calls, but present the facts.

Well, these facts are completely irrelevant. I bet if we dug into the traffic violation background for some big name starting QBs in the NFL FROM THEIR TEENS and early twenties, you'd find a whole list of traffic violations.

Its a completely asinine and misleading train of thought to "expose" minor traffic violations as a character flaw. Anyone who brings this up as a talking point about a potential NFL player deserves some serious ridicule as a fan of the sport.

Next thing you know, we'll see a video of him kicking the neighbor's dog that is barking at him on his own property, and PETA will be boycotting whatever team drafts him.

Ridiculous.:willy_nilly:

I think the entire point was, as the author puts it: "I tend to favour the mistakes of youth. But if I’m Stu Weinstein and Jeff Ireland then I’m asking a whole lot of questions and I’m expecting some pretty good answers. When researching players from four conferences for this draft – ACC, SEC, MAC and WAC - I looked into the backgrounds of every draft eligible player who we believed could make a training camp. I found a myriad of hidden transgressions and law breaking far worse than anything Newton was accused of."

The point was to dig up everything possible, be it a speeding ticket, his license suspended, whatever. Teams are going to pay this guy millions, so they'll check EVERYTHING. That was what they found... and the guys still didn't think it was a big deal. That's a good thing for Cam, no?

[monstercat]

Forget the article, just watch the damn video. If not for so many drops, this kid could easily have completed over 70% of his passes. The people who think he is just a runner are completely clueless. Yes, he needs to work on footwork a little bit, but his throwing motion and release are as good as you're going to see anywhere and on any level, and he is pretty darn accurate even when his footwork is a little off.

I did find it interesting that he was criticized in HS for being too much of a pocket passer though...talk about irony. This kid can't win for losing with some people.

And oh BTW, he is clearly going through his progressions in some of those clips, wheras, Gabbert looks like he almost always has his receiver picked out when he gets the snap. There is no reason in the world to have Gabbert and Locker ahead of Cam Newton on your draft board.

[blackcatgrowl]

I think the entire point was, as the author puts it: "I tend to favour the mistakes of youth. But if I’m Stu Weinstein and Jeff Ireland then I’m asking a whole lot of questions and I’m expecting some pretty good answers. When researching players from four conferences for this draft – ACC, SEC, MAC and WAC - I looked into the backgrounds of every draft eligible player who we believed could make a training camp. I found a myriad of hidden transgressions and law breaking far worse than anything Newton was accused of."

The point was to dig up everything possible. That was what they found... and the guys still didn't think it was a big deal. That's a good thing for Cam, no?

And my point is why the hell are we digging up everything possible?

Had he found a cocaine or heroin possession convictions, or repeated assault convictions, or grand theft auto convictions, Ok... lets talk about character flaws...

But traffic tickets?

[monstercat]

And my point is why the hell are we digging up everything possible?

Had he found a cocaine or heroin possession convictions, or repeated assault convictions, or grand theft auto convictions, Ok... lets talk about character flaws...

But traffic tickets?

They're just doing what NFL teams are going to do. What difference does it make if, at the end of all that digging, they make the determination that he's worth the #1 pick? You can bet your butt that the Carolina Panthers are asking all the same questions about Cam right now.

[mav1234]

And my point is why the hell are we digging up everything possible?

Had he found a cocaine or heroin possession convictions, or repeated assault convictions, or grand theft auto convictions, Ok... lets talk about character flaws...

But traffic tickets?

Because the point is if you don't look, you don't know. The fact is potential #1 quarterbacks get this level of scrutiny ... Didn't the colts like... hire private investigators to follow around Manning and Ryan to help decide which to pick? And we're upset some guy on a website mentions Newton got traffic tickets? You have to understand the reason this was written, too... it's because the Dolphins are the ONLY team to be linked by name to wanting to draft Cam Newton so far so that story was designed to show WHY that is, but also WHY other teams aren't yet saying the same thing (which IMO the traffic ticket has nothing to do with)...

Kiper had something interesting to say... Scouts either love Cam, or hate him... Very few people have him rated as an average player or a second round guy... it's either first or not at all. He and McShay agreed that who they have on their big board and how they have them rated is not how this draft is going to shake out because of the huge number of teams who want QBs early on.

He also said teams after a QB might end up just trading back and just picking up an Andy Dalton and being better off.

[rayzor]

there may be some truth to a lot of maxims and a lot of truth to a few maxims, none are without exception. just because it has a bill and webbed feet doesn't mean its a duck...or even a bird.

you might say that some people who take shortcuts and focus on those things that aren't really important in the whole scheme of things might be better at allocating their time.

as long as he's giving everything he's got to playing the game and does a good job with it, i don't care how he did in school. i don't care how he did with the little things as i don't think it has any bearing overall on those things that are important. he may have given all he had with his studies and out of desperation to try and keep himself academically eligible decided a short cut was worth it. some people are incredibly talented, een though they are poor students. you can't assume to know exactly what or why things happen. did those reports of him taking the shortcut at florida continue at blinn or auburn or did it stop at florida. until there are reports of him taking those shortcuts or stealing (or buying stolen property) or any other illegal actions after leaving florida, you have to assume that things changed....that he changed.

And I appreciate that as well.

I was once told a fairly wise statement, "It's how you behave with the little things that reflect how good you are with the big things". Essentially behaviour 'when no one is looking' is a really good insight into the character of a person, as if they still work as hard with the same level of work then you have a truly great person. Someone who is open to taking short cuts when they think no one will know is likely a 'normal' person.

Essentially the concept of a hard working person falls onto the mantra of 'making yourself all you can be'. Anyone who believes in that will not be cutting short in any area.

From what I can see, is that he loves the game and that is what fuels his determination, coupled with his sheer competitive determination. I just wonder what will happen if anything challenges that love for the game, if we end up seeing the guy who is prepared to take short cuts.

Honestly? I have a bit of an issue with someone who has done these things repeatedly. The 12 traffic violations is negligent, the two cases of cheating is questionable. The throwing the laptop out the window is just immature, as he must have realised it wouldn't have achieved anything and he didn't want to face up to what he had done.

That said, I am warming to him as a prospect and potentially our pick. I still feel his feet can get very flat footed when dropping back and doing play action. I still feel he has yet to show any ability to throw a timing route. I still feel he needs to sit and learn the pro game to prevent him from developing bad habits.

If the Panthers selected him #1 you can bet that they are convinced this guy is as hard a worker as you can find, as there are too many questions about his game to ignore that facet of his character. He WILL need to work hard, very hard. If he can convince people he is prepared to do that and beyond, then it's possible we are considering him.

[Urrymonster]

And my point is why the hell are we digging up everything possible?

Had he found a cocaine or heroin possession convictions, or repeated assault convictions, or grand theft auto convictions, Ok... lets talk about character flaws...

But traffic tickets?

When you are about to shell out millions to someone, you want to know exactly the kind of person they are. When did he pass his driving test? He is 21 now, so 12 tickets is around 2-3 a year and like it or not displays pure negligence on his part. It's not immaturity, it's a simple disregard for sticking to the rules. If he were suspended once for careless driving then you could possibly excuse it for immaturity, but to pick up 12 tickets in a few years is a little head scratching.

The reason it's brought up is because of the two cases of cheating and his poor decision to buy the laptop and then throw it away rather than face up to what he did.

Like it or not there are questions about his character and now it becomes a guessing game to see if he has learnt from his mistakes. The concern for me is that these incidents continue to happen, suggesting that he will always have that side to him. Add in that he is led by his father and you could get an indication into why these things keep happening.

Potential is undeniable

Transition will take time

Character is a huge question

My only issue with you is that you seem to refuse to accept that Cam has questions by his name, be it ability or character. It's a little naive and also a little annoying as you gate crash any discussion there is. Just for once actually take your homer boots off and look at him objectively, much like what our FO is going to have to do.

[Urrymonster]

there may be some truth to a lot of maxims and a lot of truth to a few maxims, none are without exception. just because it has a bill and webbed feet doesn't mean its a duck...or even a bird.

you might say that some people who take shortcuts and focus on those things that aren't really important in the whole scheme of things might be better at allocating their time.

as long as he's giving everything he's got to playing the game and does a good job with it, i don't care how he did in school. i don't care how he did with the little things as i don't think it has any bearing overall on those things that are important. he may have given all he had with his studies and out of desperation to try and keep himself academically eligible decided a short cut was worth it. some people are incredibly talented, een though they are poor students. you can't assume to know exactly what or why things happen. did those reports of him taking the shortcut at florida continue at blinn or auburn or did it stop at florida. until there are reports of him taking those shortcuts or stealing (or buying stolen property) or any other illegal actions after leaving florida, you have to assume that things changed....that he changed.

I can agree with what you are saying, so don't think I am just 'hating' on him. I think he is a good prospect and I am starting to believe he will be in our discussions once we start to come close to making a decision with the #1.

However it is in my view that the small things show the character of an individual over the large things. Simply because if someone only works hard for the major things in life, complacency and negligence can easily creep in. Once has has 'made it', where is that driving force? He could easily sit back and rest on his achievements, as indicated by how he treats the smaller aspects to life.

Again, not hating, just trying to indicate this guy is not the perfect prospect by any stretch of the imagination. He has genuine questions about how he will handle the pro game, both with his character and his style of playing.

[ckparrothead]

I put together the videos and wrote probably 80% of that article, and I find the criticism of Simon and I bringing up his traffic citations in Gainesville puzzling.

First off, 12 tickets in two years, a suspended license, being caught driving despite that suspended license, I'm sorry if you don't feel this way but that's worth noting. Especially within the context of the cheating scandals at Florida and the stolen laptop, it paints a picture of a young man with a very serious sense of entitlement. That kind of attitude gets players in trouble at the NFL level and if you don't drop it and grow up, it follows you everywhere until you're eventually out of the league. That sense of entitlement is the ONE thing I can agree with from the people that keep comparing Newton to Jamarcus Russell. It's the one thing they MAY share, depending on whether or not Newton has grown up (Russell has not).

Second, it's rather hilarious that the person criticizing our bringing up the tickets could go on record saying we're overly critical of Newton, when you consider how many other people would read what we wrote and accuse us of shilling for Cam. We love Cam Newton, we believe he's put the issues from his immature days at Florida behind him, and you can't beat his pure passing talent with a stick.

[Leeroy Jenkins PhD]

Looking at the last superbowl what do the two qb's have in common? It seems to me that they both had the ability to avoid pressure in the pocket. They were somewhat mobile and hard to bring down.

This is a quality that none of the QB's on our roster have. Especially not Pickles.

I did not follow Newton through college, but watching video's online, it appears he would be difficult to bring down and seems to actually have good pocket presence

[ckparrothead]

I had no idea Panther fans had started to refer to Jimmy Clausen as "Pickles"! That's pretty darn hilarious though.

[The Saltman]

ya been like that since last year

[rayzor]

I put together the videos and wrote probably 80% of that article, and I find the criticism of Simon and I bringing up his traffic citations in Gainesville puzzling.

First off, 12 tickets in two years, a suspended license, being caught driving despite that suspended license, I'm sorry if you don't feel this way but that's worth noting. Especially within the context of the cheating scandals at Florida and the stolen laptop, it paints a picture of a young man with a very serious sense of entitlement. That kind of attitude gets players in trouble at the NFL level and if you don't drop it and grow up, it follows you everywhere until you're eventually out of the league. That sense of entitlement is the ONE thing I can agree with from the people that keep comparing Newton to Jamarcus Russell. It's the one thing they MAY share, depending on whether or not Newton has grown up (Russell has not).

Second, it's rather hilarious that the person criticizing our bringing up the tickets could go on record saying we're overly critical of Newton, when you consider how many other people would read what we wrote and accuse us of shilling for Cam. We love Cam Newton, we believe he's put the issues from his immature days at Florida behind him, and you can't beat his pure passing talent with a stick.

i, for one, appreciate the balanced perspective.