The Bryce Young "Game Winning Drive" narrative needs to end

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, fanpanther said:

didnt feel like looking up your exact question b/c that would be crazy tough to find but over both of their entire nfl careers jake averaged 203.6 ypg 7.2 ypa  byoung 178.6 ypg and 5.8 ypa.....watching them both play vastly different players entire other end of the spectrum and jake wasnt a great athlete he just was a player who made things happen but then towards end of his career the little athleticness he had left and so with it his greatness.  

Total yard averages for someone playing for 7 seasons with good talent and Steve Smith to throw to hardly compares to Bryce's roughly 2 seasons ( he has played a total of roughly 30 some  games)with poor talent and multiple systems. If Bryce lasts another 5 or 6 years then you can compare them.

[electro's horse]

Just now, panthers55 said:

Actually it does. Jake had better talent around him and a consistent coach for his career. Yeah he came out off the blocks and led us to success early which was opposite  of Bryce, but honestly I think the team this year is the first time Bryce has had a legitimate coach and decent talent around him.  Something almost every knowledgeable analyst has said over the past 2 years. It only seems in the huddle all that gets ignored and he has been constantly criticized about a lot of things he had no control over and they weren't his fault.

Jake did not have better talent throughout his career. Actually the offense got worse every year after 2003. 2004 smith and the entire running game went out; nick goings was your top rusher at the end of the season. 

2005 they started losing bodies on the offensive line and Deshaun Foster was the second leading receiver. They just had Steve smith who put up an incredible season. But…moose was all pro the season prior, and what’s the consistency factor?

2006 poo fell apart completely. 

Bryce, on the other hand, has had a better team each of his subsequent seasons. They’ve thrown resources at the offense like nothing they ever did during delhommes tenure until the 2008 season. Yeah Deangelo was 2006 but the other big addition was a completely washed Keyshawn Johnson. 

talent or not, bryce has still had three games this year that are all on him being hideous. That is despite him finally having a complete team or whatever you’re imagining.

And complete team or not, his stats look pretty similar to what they’ve have in the past. The improvement you’re seeing is just something you want to see. 

at the end of the day he is what he is. 

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, fanpanther said:

So after the jets game when bryce sucks it up the rest of the year is that going to be enough to move on from him, or will that be b/c the panthers got rid of thielen or the coach sucks or the oline had injuries the real question is how bad does he have to be for the bryce supporters to want a change.  

If he sucks it up we need to bring in real competition to compete for the starter position. He could still be a backup as he has shown he can play in the NFL but we need someone who can win consistently.

[electro's horse]

5 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

If he sucks it up we need to bring in real competition to compete for the starter position. He could still be a backup as he has shown he can play in the NFL but we need someone who can win consistently.

Quoting this for posterity. 

[strato]

18 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Just a reminder Bryce has had 11 games with a potential game winning or tying drive at the end where they DIDNT convert. Some of these losses include him

- spiking the ball with no time left against Green Bay after throwing to the middle of the field 

- checking into the wrong play on fourth down against the Vikings 

- the recent cardinals fiasco 

 

What I was saying… if there is a GWD stat there needs to be a GLD stat. 

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Jake did not have better talent throughout his career. Actually the offense got worse every year after 2003. 2004 smith and the entire running game went out; nick goings was your top rusher at the end of the season. 

2005 they started losing bodies on the offensive line and Deshaun Foster was the second leading receiver. They just had Steve smith who put up an incredible season. But…moose was all pro the season prior, and what’s the consistency factor?

2006 poo fell apart completely. 

Bryce, on the other hand, has had a better team each of his subsequent seasons. They’ve thrown resources at the offense like nothing they ever did during delhommes tenure until the 2008 season. Yeah Deangelo was 2006 but the other big addition was a completely washed Keyshawn Johnson. 

talent or not, bryce has still had three games this year that are all on him being hideous. That is despite him finally having a complete team or whatever you’re imagining.

And complete team or not, his stats look pretty similar to what they’ve have in the past. The improvement you’re seeing is just something you want to see. 

at the end of the day he is what he is. 

Without a point by point rebuttal I would argue the defensive talent Jake had was consistently better than Bryce has had meaning he didn't have to be great to win.

And lets be real while Bryce has had better talent each year, this squad is the only one where you would say .any players are NFL quality. We were bringing guys to play line off the streets last year. We did seem to.learn our lesson by giving Bryce depth on the line given we have lost 2 starters  for the seasoned other guys who games.

What you see is your remembrance of the games you saw colored by your own filter  which doesn't necessarily  make it true.

[strato]

I must point out that Bryce plays in an era where they can’t touch him basically. His receivers, same thing. 
 

Draw your own conclusions. 

[panthers55]

6 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Quoting this for posterity. 

Please do because this is like the 10th time I have said it. I advocated to bring in some real competition this year at draft time with a top draft pick or better vet than Dalton. I am a Panther fan not a Bryce fan. I support him because he is a Panther. He wasn't my choice when we drafted him and anyone who read my posts would know that. If we dump Bryce he will be dead to me. So yeah keep remembering that as we continue our conversation.

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, strato said:

I must point out that Bryce plays in an era where they can’t touch him basically. His receivers, same thing. 
 

Draw your own conclusions. 

Another reason you can't really compare QBs from different eras. 

[electro's horse]

17 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Without a point by point rebuttal I would argue the defensive talent Jake had was consistently better than Bryce has had meaning he didn't have to be great to win.

And lets be real while Bryce has had better talent each year, this squad is the only one where you would say .any players are NFL quality. We were bringing guys to play line off the streets last year. We did seem to.learn our lesson by giving Bryce depth on the line given we have lost 2 starters  for the seasoned other guys who games.

What you see is your remembrance of the games you saw colored by your own filter  which doesn't necessarily  make it true.

Your argument is wrong. By 2005 the defense was basically just peppers and Ken Lucas. We can argue about how good peppers was and what that’s worth, but the defense right now is certainly better than it was in 2005. 2004 was peppers and 8 games of mark fields. 

as it stands right now the team is way better than it was in 2005, minus Steve smith being a god and Bryce being far worse than Jake by any metric you want. Hell right nonw the defense is top ten ish. 

and again the team talent has nothing to do with him imploding agains the cardinals or jags, or him doing nothing against the falcons, or the fumbles, or his first quarter against the dolphins who are one of the two or three worst teams in the league. 

Edited 2 hours ago by electro's horse

[Bear Hands]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

And how many games did we win where Delhomme had less than 200 yards passing and we averaged over 150 yards running the ball with JStew and DeAngelo? I really am asking since I don't care enough to research it. But if it was a number, how come he hasn't gotten the crap Bryce has gotten.

Went back to check to see for context.  Open to exploring the validity of my stat throwout--

Looking at Delhomme's core 3-year stretch (03-05):   

• 2005 (our best team that just got crazy injured IMO) he had 5 wins w/200+
• 5 as well in 2004
• 4 in 20023.  And 122 in the second half of his Jags debut game.  Section 336 represent!

So that was 14 overall 200+ yard 1 TD+ game winning performances in his first 3 seasons.  

Bryce has 2 winning games where he passed for over 200 yards in nearly the same time frame.  We have an extra game per season so we're not far off the total games.  7 to go to match. 

Currently, it's 2 (BY) vs. 14 (JD)

    

[electro's horse]

1 minute ago, Bear Hands said:

Went back to check to see for context.  Open to exploring the validity of my stat throwout--

Looking at Delhomme's core 3-year stretch (03-05):   

• 2005 (our best team that just got crazy injured IMO) he had 5 wins w/200+
• 5 as well in 2004
• 4 in 20023.  And 122 in the second half of his Jags debut game.  Section 336 represent!

So that was 14 overall 200+ yard 1 TD+ game winning performances in his first 3 seasons.  

Bryce has 2 winning games where he passed for over 200 yards in nearly the same time frame.  We have an extra game per season so we're not far off the total games.  7 to go to match. 

Currently, it's 2 (BY) vs. 14 (JD)

    

2004 was the team that got destroyed by injuries and was probably the best team in general of that era. 

05 Jenkins, Davis and Morgan got hurt (again). Other than that they were pretty healthy. 

[Bear Hands]

3 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

2004 was the team that got destroyed by injuries and was probably the best team in general of that era. 

05 Jenkins, Davis and Morgan got hurt (again). Other than that they were pretty healthy. 

I was thinking the NFCC year where we ran Nick Goings.  Moose was out, all RBs, just depleted on offense.  

[strato]

13 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Another reason you can't really compare QBs from different eras. 

Yeah that is a valid conclusion.

The modern NFL is close to flag football. 

I can’t prove another assumption I have so I will not say it.