Vet QB Options - Trade/Cut/FA Edition

[strato]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The point is that from 2023-Present, Dave Canales was calling offensive plays. He was not doing so prior to that time period.

Like I said in the edit, got my years wrong. Was thinking 2022 with him here for some reason. Caught it, added a note. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, strato said:

Like I said in the edit, got my years wrong. Was thinking 2022 with him here for some reason. Caught it, added a note. 

My larger point being that this IS the Dave Canales offense. From a stastical perspective, the results haven't changed much in terms of deep targets or IAY/PA.

Now, a much more thorough film breakdown would be necessary to say if Canales has actually modified his offense significantly for Bryce. I don't personally believe that it has but I haven't slogged through the 40+ All 22 tapes to say with great certainty.

It would be an interesting thing to see someone do a breakdown video of that.

[strato]

2 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

That was Frank the tank though.  I don't know that DC wants to change his offense when another QB comes in.  He probably needs an offseason.  I think this thing is cooked up for what we have at QB and not what we want.

Las Vegas last year looked like the reins were off too. Opened it up. 

[strato]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

My larger point being that this IS the Dave Canales offense. From a stastical perspective, the results haven't changed much in terms of deep targets or IAY/PA.

Now, a much more thorough film breakdown would be necessary to say if Canales has actually modified his offense significantly for Bryce. I don't personally believe that it has but I haven't slogged through the 40+ All 22 tapes to say with great certainty.

It would be an interesting thing to see someone do a breakdown video of that.

I am not going through all that either but maybe looking at TB passing charts with Mayfield could offer a clue. Which I have not done since I just thought of it but is little easier to quantify. 
I mean when you look at Bryce’s the thing that stands out recently is a reduction of the clusters on the right side behind or at the LOS.

But there are areas that are consistent. Middle, 10-15 yards or so, same down the right sideline, stuff like that. 
I look and see those things and thing if I’m a DC I am posting a dude in those areas full time. 

Edited 4 hours ago by strato

[kungfoodude]

Just now, strato said:

I am not going through all that either but maybe looking at TB passing charts with Mayfield could offer a clue. Which I have not done since I just thought of it but is little easier to quantify. 

Well, I did actually do that to get the 20+ yard passes per game.

I could break of their tiers of passes and compare those but really that's not any more informative than IAY/PA is. That's the overall average, basically. Again, not a massive difference. Bryce is way down in that statistic this season so far but it remains to be seen if that will rise or not. It did last season towards the latter half of the year.

[strato]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well, I did actually do that to get the 20+ yard passes per game.

I could break of their tiers of passes and compare those but really that's not any more informative than IAY/PA is. That's the overall average, basically. Again, not a massive difference. Bryce is way down in that statistic this season so far but it remains to be seen if that will rise or not. It did last season towards the latter half of the year.

I just looked at the page with every game on it, it is pretty easy to see without going into the page for a given week. 
There is stuff unlike any chart of Bryce’s that I recall. And a couple are markedly different that the rest indicating a plan of attack for that game. I just took a quick sampling off the main page it looks pretty obvious. 
 

For anyone that is curious https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass/tampabay-buccaneers/2023/week

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, strato said:

I just looked at the page with every game on it, it is pretty easy to see without going into the page for a given week. 
There is stuff unlike any chart of Bryce’s that I recall. And a couple are markedly different that the rest indicating a plan of attack for that game. I just took a quick sampling off the main page it looks pretty obvious. 
 

For anyone that is curious https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass/tampabay-buccaneers/2023/week

I don't think working from memory is going to be very productive or useful. You would need to compare them all, which is far easier to do from the breakdowns of each game. That has tiered charts that give real data. 

But, even then that wouldn't substitute for a trained eye(s) doing detailed film analysis to attempt to determine if we are modifying the offense dramatically for Bryce.

[PNW_PantherMan]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Ah yes, my bad. It's easy to forget those handful of games Frank coached. LOL 

Plus this is Bryce’s 3rd rookie season so I can see how you’d get confused 

[RJK]

I wouldn’t be mad at Trevor Lawrence but unless something weird happens go get 

[RJK]

4 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Plus this is Bryce’s 3rd rookie season so I can see how you’d get confused 

Lol I saw a talking head on some sports show say Bryce is still up and down in his short career…like bro it’s year 3 he’s still bad more often than not. It’s not going to magically change 

[strato]

11 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't think working from memory is going to be very productive or useful. You would need to compare them all, which is far easier to do from the breakdowns of each game. That has tiered charts that give real data. 

But, even then that wouldn't substitute for a trained eye(s) doing detailed film analysis to attempt to determine if we are modifying the offense dramatically for Bryce.

Well you can get chicken or egg with why, and debate that but at a glance you can see obvious differences. Some are stark. 
 

I am going with the casual fan overview that tells me he is putting less on Bryce’s plate.
Looks to me he is calling the plays he knows the QB can handle. Just the hits. No deep cuts. 

[kungfoodude]

16 minutes ago, strato said:

Well you can get chicken or egg with why, and debate that but at a glance you can see obvious differences. Some are stark. 
 

I am going with the casual fan overview that tells me he is putting less on Bryce’s plate.
Looks to me he is calling the plays he knows the QB can handle. Just the hits. No deep cuts. 

Yes but you basically said you are going from a quick skim of those charts without doing the same for Bryce and/or Andy. So you are going memory vs. snapshots. That's not going to be a very comprehensive analysis.

[strato]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yes but you basically said you are going from a quick skim of those charts without doing the same for Bryce and/or Andy. So you are going memory vs. snapshots. That's not going to be a very comprehensive analysis.

Oh I see what you meant by memory. I will trust my memory, I have looked a a lot of those ball charts for Bryce and they trend a general pattern. They thing that has changed that I have noticed more recently is the reduction in the bunching of behind or at  the LOS passes over to his right. 

Aside from the quantity of throws recently since the running game has become a more dominant factor. 

Edited 3 hours ago by strato

[Daddy_Uncle]

17 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Give me Sam Howell and draft another one. Canales rehabbed Baker Mayfield to the extent that it got him a head coaching gig. Skill set and mentality wise, Sam Howell is basically Baker Mayfield.

I like this idea