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Okay gentlemen, REAL talk...


Mr. Scot
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3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I like to look at trends for a young QB but everyone has their own criteria.  Is he getting better throughout the year each year?  I think so, but I still want to see some consistency.  I like that he had 2 of his best games in his most recent 3 with one being on the road.  I also like how the team is learning to win with him as a leader.  I don't like the inconsistencies but this is a pretty young offense and offensive staff.  It will be interesting to see how we finish.  Regardless QB2 HAS to be upgraded this offseason.  

Trends for QBs with a tendency to be streaky can be hard to follow.

(we get a lot of those types here)

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5 hours ago, CRA said:

Teams can win in spite of bad offense.  In spite of bad defense.  In spite of bad ST.  In spite of being weak at corner.  In spite of weak WRs.  In spite of weak QB play. 

like I said, what is taking place is the unique cherry pick where some fans say we can't state the obvious reality about the QB spot.  But look at Atlanta!  But look at these 3 throws in this game he was treated as a backup for every single other snap!  Exceptions don't make the rule or change the big picture.

I have seen lots of your post, I don't recall you rushing to Philly Brown's defense when it was just matter of fact stated Cam Newton won NFL MVP/went to the Super Bowl despite a weak WR cast.  The entire board universally agreed the weak link to that roster was what it was.     I would reckon if I searched hard enough, I could find you making the same matter of statement that teams do in fact win in spite of very clear weaknesses. 

Was he treated as a backup here? These are some damn good throws.

https://x.com/justblande/status/1995605727323500992?s=46&t=LFCU3YJC5DIKyaUU92bPAQ

 

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4 hours ago, CRA said:

Rex Grossman led the Bears to the Super Bowl!   He deserves the same credit for all those wins as that top 5 D, HOF Devin Hester lead special teams and rush attack!    They definitely didn't get there in spite of a QB that had (check notes)....the 43rd best completion % in the NFL that year and top 3 in turnovers. 

you just can't take credit away from Rex like that.  In spite of? Dude had GWDs.  

Yeah, he did.

In a different context, George S Patton was a colossal a--shole (my WWII veteran uncle hated his guts) but it can't be argued that he helped us win the war. So is he all hero, all scoundrel, or is it...complicated?

The whole dichotomy of instating that players be lumped into categories of "all good" or "all bad" just isn't viable in a real world discussion any more than we can put any human being in one of those two camps.

Life is complicated. So is football.

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3 hours ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Great take.  

I'm a big Bryce fan and have been since we drafted him.  My stance has always been to give him time to develop.  To have some patience.  

I look at each play and figure out where the issue was on that play and who did their job and who screwed up.  Over time you look to see if the player is improving.  Stats are a reflection of making the right decisions but depend very heavily on what the other 10 guys did or didn't do and what play Canales called and the situation.  

I hope no one would argue that the games in which Bryce plays well, he usually plays really, really well.  You can easily see on dozens of individual plays where is does things at an elite level.  We can also see how the teams talks about and responds to him, on and off the field.  We are at the point now where we know whats possible.  The question now is how to do it more consistently.  

We have a young coach.
We have a young GM.
We have young players.
We have Young.
 
Let the Panthers cook.

It may not be happening on the time table or in the exact way the fan base wants but no one can argue this is the best the team has looked from top to bottom since Watt blew up Cam's shoulder.  Front office, coaching staff and players.  

Win, lose or draw the Panthers are exciting and contending again.

I'd call this a valid take.

A realistic one also cause there ain't a whole lot else we can do 😕

Edited by Mr. Scot
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2 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

The player. He doesn't know how to play th qb position. He can't play it in college and he sure as hell won't be able to play it in the nfl. He's just big and can run fast. Oh, he can throw the football real far. But a qb he is not and you cannot make him one. Its a waste of even a 7th round pick. 

This is me too.

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

He has lost a lot of stock value this year--was it the supporting cast or the player?  

I'm not gonna claim to have done a deep analysis on him. My take at this point is a "surface" take.

I just have a hard time imagining that he's gonna make a successful transition to the pro game.

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25 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Was he treated as a backup here? These are some damn good throws.

https://x.com/justblande/status/1995605727323500992?s=46&t=LFCU3YJC5DIKyaUU92bPAQ

 

Yeah, I mean if you watched the game he was.   Dude had 2 throws over 10 yards downfield and he was completely hidden.  There were 2 schizophrenic 4th down playcalls.   If you didn’t catch those 2 passes and watched her rest of the game. 

the fine line between dumb and stupid playcalls….is often just the result.  Bryce misses just one of the 4th down calls and the narrative for Bryce and Canales is an entire 180.  

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17 minutes ago, CRA said:

Yeah, I mean if you watched the game he was.   Dude had 2 throws over 10 yards downfield and he was completely hidden.  There were 2 schizophrenic 4th down playcalls.   If you didn’t catch those 2 passes and watched her rest of the game. 

the fine line between dumb and stupid playcalls….is often just the result.  Bryce misses just one of the 4th down calls and the narrative for Bryce and Canales is an entire 180.  

You wanted to reiterate this? 🤔

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    • I agree with you that AJ Brown and Mahomes were deserving of being nominated. I just find it odd that among these 6 nominees, Bryce is the guy you’re singling out as undeserving? Are you that impressed with Swift and Achane’s ~130 yards and 1 TD? It’s a lot easier to do a 1 to 1 statistical comparison between a RB and WR than it is to compare a QB to a WR. So it’s basically 130 yards and 1 TD (Swift/Achane) against 130 yards and 2 TDs (Brown). That’s way more clear and egregious than trying to argue a QB’s 200 yards and 3 TDs is worse than a WR’s 130 yards and 2 TDs. My vote would be swapping in AJ Brown for Swift, if you consider that Swift’s 7th round back-up had basically an equal stat line. And if you want to replace someone else on this list with Mahomes, may I nominate the opposing QB who he faced and outperformed? Dak wasn’t even the best QB in his own stadium that day.  They were both very similar in yardage (if you include Mahomes’ 30 rush yards), but Mahomes had 4 TDs and 0 INTs to Dak’s 2 TDs and 1 INT. And you’ve talked a lot about your understanding of this award being largely statistics-based. But you have neglected two key stats here: the first being QB Rating, which I believe Bryce led the league in this week (someone fact check me). I know QB Rating is a bit different than a traditional metric that you can objectively evaluate on its own, but it’s arguably the most valuable singular stat since it encompasses all those other key objective metrics in quantifying a QB’s overall performance via a structured formula.  And the other key stat which appears to be quite significant in their criteria when doling out nominations? WIN VS LOSS. You’ll notice the only nominee here that was on a losing team was Bijan Robinson who had almost 200 scrimmage yards and a TD. That also explains why guys like AJ Brown and Mahomes didn’t get nominated. I went back and revisited the nominees each week going back to Week 9 and you see roughly the same pattern each week: vast majority of nominees from winning teams, and the rare nominee from a losing team having a HUGE statistical performance. Examples being Bowers and London after their ~120 yard 3 TD games, Brissett after his 450 yard game where I think he broke some kind of NFL record for completion percentage, and Jameis Winston last week when he had 400 yards and 3 TDs including a 33-yard touchdown RECEPTION. In fact, those are the only nominees on losing teams over the last 5 weeks (5 total, averaging 1 per week). Bijan Robinson had arguably the most lackluster stat line of all the losers, with only 200 scrimmage yards and a TD. So yeah apparently it takes quite a monster game for a loser to get nominated and Brown/Mahomes apparently didn’t meet that threshold.
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