The slide debate

[kungfoodude]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

There is, and people outside the fanbase are talking about it.

But with that said, the controversy is long running and not limited to us. 

Yeah and somehow when this exact same thing happens to a bigger ticket QB the shoe is on the other foot for the talking heads?

I am not buying it. It's all reality TV level horseshit. The rule and they way they call it has been pretty clear for years now.

If was a stupid play, without question. And at a critical time.

But, it should never have been to that point anyway. In the final 24:54 of gametime following our 3rd quarter TD we accomplished 44 yards of offense in 4 drives. 44. That's the fuging problem, not any individual play.

[LinvilleGorge]

I honestly hate it. It puts the defender in a terrible spot, especially that Shough slide yesterday. Like Ransom was saying, they were at the very fringe of FG range where every yard matters and he's trying to stop the runner for as little yardage as possible. Completely understandable and I can't really blame him for the play. Just a shitty no win situation for him and Shough sold the call with his hilarious overacting. It is what it is.

I'd like to see the protection rule changed to some type of halo rule like on punt catches. Yeah, it adds another level of potential controversy to officiating but this bullshit of running as far as you possibly can and then sliding as a defender has already committed to the tackle is just that, it's bullshit. If you're protecting yourself, protect yourself. If you're trying to get every yard you can then get hit. fug having the best of both.

[45catfan]

This a soccer picture, but a slide executed correctly.

 

Bryce looking like he slipped on a patch of ice.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

This a soccer picture, but a slide executed correctly.

 

Bryce looking like he slipped on a patch of ice.

They do this late slide poo on purpose. They're trying to bait a flag like a basketball player flopping or doing the whole "drive and flail" thing. Shough got hit harder and he did more to sell it so he got the flag. The NFL should try to address it. Allow QBs to slide to protect themselves but you can't let them flirt with the fine line of trying to get every inch they can and then slide at the last second with the defender already committed to the hit and then put the onus on the defender to avoid it.

[LinvilleGorge]

I know the they'll never do it but honestly I'd just get rid of the slide. If you're a runner, run. Don't wanna get hit, don't run. We'll protect you as a QB in the pocket but once you scramble outside of that pocket you're just another runner and that's how we're gonna treat you.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They do this late slide poo on purpose. They're trying to bait a flag like a basketball player flopping or doing the whole "drive and flail" thing. Shough got hit harder and he did more to sell it so he got the flag. The NFL should try to address it. Allow QBs to slide to protect themselves but you can't let them flirt with the fine line of trying to get every inch they can and then slide at the last second with the defender already committed to the hit and then put the onus on the defender to avoid it.

I think you have to tweak the rules to be less judgement based. 

I have no issue with outlawing the "diving" tackles to the upper chest/head area of a QB in a slide but basing it on when the player actually got down versus when they actually launched themselves. 

The defenders also have to realize that the QB doesn't get credit for the "sliding" yardage so there is little benefit to launching into them. Just form tackle them and they will go down.

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They do this late slide poo on purpose. They're trying to bait a flag like a basketball player flopping or doing the whole "drive and flail" thing. Shough got hit harder and he did more to sell it so he got the flag. The NFL should try to address it. Allow QBs to slide to protect themselves but you can't let them flirt with the fine line of trying to get every inch they can and then slide at the last second with the defender already committed to the hit and then put the onus on the defender to avoid it.

I agree they should put more tight parameters around it. I mean if you got 3 or 4 criteria of what constitutes a catch, they could do the same with QB slides.  

My point is the average QB sucks at sliding. In modern football where mobility is damn near as important as arm talent, sliding should be taught.  I coached youth soccer of various ages and if a 6 or 7 year old can be taught in a few practices how to properly execute a slide, surely a NFL QB can be.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

My point is the average QB sucks at sliding. In modern football where mobility is damn near as important as arm talent, sliding should be taught.  I coached youth soccer of various ages and if a 6 or 7 year old can be taught in a few practices how to properly execute a slide, surely a NFL QB can be.

I think it's intentional. These late half ass slides are all about trying to bait a flag out of the ref's pocket and make defenders second guess whether you're still running or giving yourself up. It's all about trying to get that extra 15.

[Moonraker]

The rule really is quite insane when you think about it. The NFL is so hyper-regulated in every way now. It's not fair to expect human beings to make these calls. You can blame the refs but really, I blame the NFL. Protect them in the pocket and other than that you should expect to get your head knocked off. 

[45catfan]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think it's intentional. These late half ass slides are all about trying to bait a flag out of the ref's pocket.

Agree, so a rule needs to be adjusted to be specific in the act of a slide.  If the QB does some unorthodox flop and not an actual slide, it should not be protected.  Then they need to constitute the process of a slide and when is begins, also if the QB is late attempting it--therefore not afforded the protection. Let's say the slide begins the moment the QB leaves both feet as a runner. Also, one yard and closer to the tackler is too late to attempt a slide, at that point you are a ball carrier and forfeit your QB protection.  

Does this sound fair?

 

Edited 14 hours ago by 45catfan

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

Agree, so a rule needs to be adjusted to be specific in the act of a slide.  If the QB does some unorthodox flop and not an actual slide, it should not be protected.  Then they need to constitute the process of a slide and when is begins, also if the QB is late attempting it--therefore not afforded the protection.Let's say the slide begins the moment the QB leaves both feet as a runner. Also, one yard and closer to the tackler is too late to attempt a slide, at that point you are a ball carrier and forfeit your QB protection.  

Does this sound fair?

 

Yeah, I just know it's not gonna happen. The NFL wants to maximize QB protection because owners want to protect the most expensive position on their teams. The last thing you want to see as an owner is that $60M/year player leaving the field on a cart.

[45catfan]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I just know it's not gonna happen. The NFL wants to maximize QB protection because owners want to protect the most expensive position on their teams. The last thing you want to see as an owner is that $60M/year player leaving the field on a cart.

So by my proposed rules, Shough would have been protected and Young not protected.  

Shough left his feet at the 45 yard line.  Ransom is at the 42-1/2 yard line.

 

Young never left his feet until contact was initiated.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

So by my proposed rules, Shough would have been protected and Young not protected.  

Shough left his feet at the 45 yard line.  Ransom is at the 42-1/2 yard line.

 

Young never left his feet until contact was initiated.

Yeah, I get it and I largely agree. I just realize that the NFL wants to give the refs as much leeway as possible to protect QBs. I was honestly surprised a flag didn't fly on that Bryce hit. Do I think it should be a flag? No, but I'm conditioned to expect one when a feet first QB gets contacted.

[Mr. Scot]

58 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I honestly hate it. It puts the defender in a terrible spot, especially that Shough slide yesterday. Like Ransom was saying, they were at the very fringe of FG range where every yard matters and he's trying to stop the runner for as little yardage as possible. Completely understandable and I can't really blame him for the play. Just a shitty no win situation for him and Shough sold the call with his hilarious overacting. It is what it is.

I'd like to see the protection rule changed to some type of halo rule like on punt catches. Yeah, it adds another level of potential controversy to officiating but this bullshit of running as far as you possibly can and then sliding as a defender has already committed to the tackle is just that, it's bullshit. If you're protecting yourself, protect yourself. If you're trying to get every yard you can then get hit. fug having the best of both.

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