Remember when we passed on malik wills 3 times for matt corral?

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

I'm not arguing against any of that. But if a super talent looks bad vs elite competition you also have to factor in the level of talent around him. You can't expect him to beat say Auburn without another draftable player on the roster.  It works both ways. Yes he clearly developed over the course of his career but you could say any player not a instant success has the same benefit of time and learning.

You would rather get the talent in the building than just say oh well that car needs to much work vs taking a guy that has less ability and less upside. I wanted Richardson over Bryce and Stroud to this day I stand by that, you can't predict being injury prone, if the elite talent fails it won't be because he lacks the talent to play at the NFL level 

 

Yes but you are describing the sort of player that warrants a lower round pick because they are extremely risky.

Richardson is the ideal example. He was one of the worst 1st round QB prospects coming out of college I have seen in the last 15 years. Completely ill suited to being in the NFL, despite being otherwordly talented. And he has conclusively proven he is not an NFL player. 

That's why you don't take the XL's of the world over the Ladd McConkey's or the Matthew Golden's over the TMac's. 

Skill and ability matters more than eye popping underwear Olympics measurables.

Willis went about where he should have(if not too high) based on the level of prospect he was. It's great that he looks like he is really turning the corner on his development. But let's also be clear, he has still never been a season starter any any point in his 4 year NFL career. I don't think you are likely to see him get a starters  salary anytime soon. Not until he proves it.

All that said, I'd be happy to pay him as a top tier backup and give him a shot at winning a starting job in Carolina.

[micnificent28]

18 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yes but you are describing the sort of player that warrants a lower round pick because they are extremely risky.

Richardson is the ideal example. He was one of the worst 1st round QB prospects coming out of college I have seen in the last 15 years. Completely ill suited to being in the NFL, despite being otherwordly talented. And he has conclusively proven he is not an NFL player. 

That's why you don't take the XL's of the world over the Ladd McConkey's or the Matthew Golden's over the TMac's. 

Skill and ability matters more than eye popping underwear Olympics measurables.

Willis went about where he should have(if not too high) based on the level of prospect he was. It's great that he looks like he is really turning the corner on his development. But let's also be clear, he has still never been a season starter any any point in his 4 year NFL career. I don't think you are likely to see him get a starters  salary anytime soon. Not until he proves it.

All that said, I'd be happy to pay him as a top tier backup and give him a shot at winning a starting job in Carolina.

I can't defend Richardsons failure to this point. And he is still as young as the rookies being taken this past season. I think he still could pan out. 

XL is another case. I think he looked the part but some of his times and film showed he struggled separating and the fact he never showed up being good before his 5th season. Laad was my obvious choice at that point(tho I was banging the table to trade up and grab Thomas Jr when he fell into the 20s). Ladd didn't lack athleticism and had the route running and mental part to boot. Didn't see a weakness in his game expect he was smaller..

[micnificent28]

26 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yes but you are describing the sort of player that warrants a lower round pick because they are extremely risky.

Richardson is the ideal example. He was one of the worst 1st round QB prospects coming out of college I have seen in the last 15 years. Completely ill suited to being in the NFL, despite being otherwordly talented. And he has conclusively proven he is not an NFL player. 

That's why you don't take the XL's of the world over the Ladd McConkey's or the Matthew Golden's over the TMac's. 

Skill and ability matters more than eye popping underwear Olympics measurables.

Willis went about where he should have(if not too high) based on the level of prospect he was. It's great that he looks like he is really turning the corner on his development. But let's also be clear, he has still never been a season starter any any point in his 4 year NFL career. I don't think you are likely to see him get a starters  salary anytime soon. Not until he proves it.

All that said, I'd be happy to pay him as a top tier backup and give him a shot at winning a starting job in Carolina.

I was thinking about what you said in your post and my whole draft philosophy is kind of the opposite. I believe that every prospect is a gamble and a risk so if you're going to gamble then you gamble on upside and potential. If Bryce Young fails it won't be because he wasn't pro-ready or he isn't accurate or any of those things that you will worry about with Willis.

It will be because he lacks the parameters and traits that are needed to do the job what good is it to know what to do if you don't have the arm strength to get it there the speed to capitalize on what you see I'd rather gamble on the guy that already has those assets at the ready available to him then a guy who looks the part but you're not sure he can get it done with the ability that he has.

I think you're doing yourself a disservice if you're only looking at wins losses or production and saying hey he won or through 50 touchdowns you can't factor in like some of that production might have come from his teammates or weapons around them you got to look at the whole big picture and in calculating all of that I put a higher value on athletic traits and do you have the things I need you to do to be able to do the job and the rest of it I think is coaching out gamble on the long-term upside versus who I think is pro-ready right now

[Jackie Lee]

36 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yes but you are describing the sort of player that warrants a lower round pick because they are extremely risky.

Richardson is the ideal example. He was one of the worst 1st round QB prospects coming out of college I have seen in the last 15 years. Completely ill suited to being in the NFL, despite being otherwordly talented. And he has conclusively proven he is not an NFL player. 

That's why you don't take the XL's of the world over the Ladd McConkey's or the Matthew Golden's over the TMac's. 

Skill and ability matters more than eye popping underwear Olympics measurables.

Willis went about where he should have(if not too high) based on the level of prospect he was. It's great that he looks like he is really turning the corner on his development. But let's also be clear, he has still never been a season starter any any point in his 4 year NFL career. I don't think you are likely to see him get a starters  salary anytime soon. Not until he proves it.

All that said, I'd be happy to pay him as a top tier backup and give him a shot at winning a starting job in Carolina.

I agree but you got the Vikings, Steelers, Raiders, Jets, Browns, maybe even Falcons that are probably going to get into a bidding war over him considering what their QB rooms are going to look like next year and with nothing of warrant in this upcoming draft class. Throw Cardinals and Dolphins in there too lol. 

[micnificent28]

20 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

I agree but you got the Vikings, Steelers, Raiders, Jets, Browns, maybe even Falcons that are probably going to get into a bidding war over him considering what their QB rooms are going to look like next year and with nothing of warrant in this upcoming draft class. Throw Cardinals and Dolphins in there too lol. 

I think you have to factor in this is a bad QB class and would you rather have Willis or Moore or Mendoza..

[Jackie Lee]

10 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

I think you have to factor in this is a bad QB class and would you rather have Willis or Moore or Mendoza..

Well Raiders or Jets will get Mendoza, I dunno if the Giants are even happy with Dart after all the head shots but they are right up there too in draft order. 

[Jackie Lee]

I see about 7-8 teams not including us still looking for a QB1

[dep]

Matt Corral is very similar to Bryce

[dep]

On 12/29/2025 at 3:54 PM, micnificent28 said:

Awful is being out of the league like Corral..

Saw him talk about leaving on a podcast a few months ago, finally be open about what happened. Sad story but I can't fault anyone for putting their addiction and health issues first.