Warren Moon sees racial bias regarding Cam Newton

[Catalyst]

I don't know that the article in question was racist, but I do believe it crossed the line between professional opinion and personal attack. He could have said all those things about Cam without coming across so mean-spirited.

But in general, I do think race has played some role in Newton's situation. It's why you see so many Russell comparisons, Vince Young comparisons, and have so many people taking a QB like Gabbert over him despite Newton doing MUCH more in a tougher conference in a similar offense. Gabbert is the traditional white QB; Newton is viewed as the risk because of recent high picks who happened to be black like VY & Russell.

It's like the pay-for-play thing... Newton has taken SO much heat for that and yet when other players come out and admit to it it gets swept under the rug. Patrick Peterson has been linked to a similar situation and I've yet to see anyone say "no way!" to him because of it. Let's be realistic: half the NCAA players are paid or bribed in some way during their college careers and just as many lie about it.

Ryan Mallett has FAR worse character concerns - cocaine anyone? - and yet not even THAT is viewed as being as bad as the past mistakes Cam has openly admitted to and apologized for. I've read people here on the huddle say they prefer Mallett to Newton and will slam Cam for his issues and the pay-for-play stuff, but then turn around and sweep a much worse offense (IMO) by Mallett under the rug.

Why is that? Racism? I honestly don't know. I suspect it's different in each situation with each person, but everytime I see Cam labeled "another Jamarcus" I cringe because it's clearly a race-based comparison. A lot of this "diva" talk with Cam is also overblown, IMO, due to race.

I keep hearing Mike Mayock questioning Cam's work ethic and I'm like... what reason does he have to question that? He's never questioned Gabbert's work ethic OR his ability to transition to a pro system. I can understand if Cam were a Vince Young type and obviously lacking mentally, but he's clearly not. Every one of his coaches and teammates has had his back on this issue as well. Not to mention the fact that, unlike VY & Russell, Cam is trying to improve as we speak, throughout the draft process, rather than sitting on his college stats and waiting until he is drafted. He even threw at the combine, something Gabbert was afraid to do because he thought he might slip.

So yeah... I DO think some of this is race-based. Not saying everyone who has done so is a racist, but there are definitely racial undertones to much of the criticisms that have been thrown at Newton, even if some are valid, many of them would be non-issues with a more "traditional" (white) QB.

[Marguide]

Look up Jimmy Clausen's profile last year, or just read the quiz I posted.

Guys on here are insisting that it's racial. I gave them a way to test their assumptions, but none of them seem up to the task.

The test was a "put up or shut up", and guess what? They've all "shut up" so to speak.

They still want to say the criticism of Newton is racist, but they're not willing to put their claims to the test.

That tells me a lot :nonod:

It tells me that the majority of people do not need to take your quiz to draw their own conclusions, nor feel it helps get anyone beyond this discussion.

I have not called Nawrocki's piece racially motivated, but you just don't want to let this issue go.

So since you have me going now, why is it that neither you nor anyone else has called out the poster with a blatant racist statement in this thread? The fact that many turn their cheek to statements like the one I am discussing directly leads to many on the other side being uber-sensitive.

[ncmonzta]

It tells me that the majority of people do not need to take your quiz to draw their own conclusions, nor feel it helps get anyone beyond this discussion.

I have not called Nawrocki's piece racially motivated, but you just don't want to let this issue go.

So since you have me going now, why is it that neither you nor anyone else has called out the poster with a blatant racist statement in this thread? The fact that many turn their cheek to statements like the one I am discussing directly leads to many on the other side being uber-sensitive.

Oh, they go crazy on king t and his comments. Their comments get little slick replies back from their buddies like some of us don't know what's going on or being said:rolleyes:

[Mr. Scot]

It tells me that the majority of people do not need to take your quiz to draw their own conclusions, nor feel it helps get anyone beyond this discussion.

I have not called Nawrocki's piece racially motivated, but you just don't want to let this issue go.

So since you have me going now, why is it that neither you nor anyone else has called out the poster with a blatant racist statement in this thread? The fact that many turn their cheek to statements like the one I am discussing directly leads to many on the other side being uber-sensitive.

If you're talking about the guy I think you are, I don't read his posts in general because I think he's usually not worth responding to, regardless of the topic. Is it stupid? Oh yeah, but pick your battles wisely. There are some cases where it's better off not to give that sort of thing any attention. I'd say this is one. If you want to call him out, I can understand that. I think the smarter option is not to give him the spotlight.

(I've been here long enough to know that with some guys, it's better that way)

As to the main topic, It was Moon who called Nawrocki's piece racist. Guys on here have agreed, or tried to spin some silliness about "well, I don't want to call it racist, but it is" :rolleyes:

And come on, we both know the real reason that nobody wants to take the quiz is because they know they'll fail and it would make their "racism" arguments look hollow.

Spin it all you want, but that's the truth :nonod:

[Marguide]

If you're talking about the guy I think you are, I don't read his posts in general because I think he's usually not worth responding to, regardless of the topic. Is it stupid? Oh yeah, but pick your battles wisely. There are some cases where it's better off not to give that sort of thing any attention. I'd say this is one. If you want to call him out, I can understand that. I think the smarter option is not to give him the spotlight.

(I've been here long enough to know that with some guys, it's better that way)

As to the main topic, It was Moon who called Nawrocki's piece racist. Guys on here have agreed, or tried to spin some silliness about "well, I don't want to call it racist, but it is" :rolleyes:

And come on, we both know the real reason that nobody wants to take the quiz is because they know they'll fail and it would make their "racism" arguments look hollow.

Spin it all you want, but that's the truth :nonod:

Even though I have just started posting recently, I have read this and other Panther forums since the beginning, including many, many of your posts through the years. This crusade just surprises me.

Consider this...you say it is wise to pick your spots and just ignore some posters that are on the extremes. But you didn't do that with KT. Why ignore one extreme and not bother calling it out, but jump all over the other extreme?

This inconsistency, not to single out you specifically, really puzzles me.

[chef17]

It tells me that the majority of people do not need to take your quiz to draw their own conclusions, nor feel it helps get anyone beyond this discussion.

I have not called Nawrocki's piece racially motivated, but you just don't want to let this issue go.

So since you have me going now, why is it that neither you nor anyone else has called out the poster with a blatant racist statement in this thread? The fact that many turn their cheek to statements like the one I am discussing directly leads to many on the other side being uber-sensitive.

1. You already called him out so I didn't feel the need to

2. As learned from KT, calling out someone for a racist statement is just a waste of time

3. KT brings up race in random threads. This thread is about race. I don't fault him for voicing his opinion

Just speaking for myself as to why I didn't call him out.

[Mr. Scot]

1. You already called him out so I didn't feel the need to

2. As learned from KT, calling out someone for a racist statement is just a waste of time

3. KT brings up race in random threads. This thread is discussing race. This would be the perfect place for a racist comment

Just speaking for myself as to why I didn't call him out.

I get what you mean, but is there really such a thing as a "perfect place for a racist comment"?

[chef17]

I get what you mean, but is there really such a thing as a "perfect place for a racist comment"?

That's true. That could have been worded better.

[Mr. Scot]

Even though I have just started posting recently, I have read this and other Panther forums since the beginning, including many, many of your posts through the years. This crusade just surprises me.

Consider this...you say it is wise to pick your spots and just ignore some posters that are on the extremes. But you didn't do that with KT. Why ignore one extreme and not bother calling it out, but jump all over the other extreme?

This inconsistency, not to single out you specifically, really puzzles me.

Oh, I'll tell you I'm deliberately inconsistent, fand I'll tell you why :lol:

I post here for one reason and one reason only, that being for my own amusement.

I'll talk about things that I feel strongly about if I'm in the mood. Other times, I just don't care. After all, it's just a message board. We're not changing the world here. It's for fun, or my idea of fun (which is sometimes a little offbeat from the average person) :willy_nilly:

Sometimes I feel like debating. Sometimes I don't. But even when I do, I don't go into it with the notion that I'm changing anybody's life. It's just what I happen to feel like doing.

(sadly, I'm also a huge insomniac, so sometimes it's just that it's late and what's on TV sucks, so here I sit) :(

You could get me talking on plenty of topics that I feel very strongly about - football and otherwise - but again, only if I'm in the mood. Admittedly, stupidity annoys me, and that's why I'll get into some topics if I think someone is being stupid. That's what got me into topics with KT sometimes, especially if I saw him insulting someone I respected.

And then throw in what a lot of people already know, but some don't. I was recently told that I probably have multiple sclerosis (awaiting confirmed diagnosis) weakness from which is why I'm home with a lot more time on my hands these days. Said time being spent here engaging in debate and such, though when people get ridiculous and start attributing personal motives to football opinions, it takes a lot of the fun out of it :rolleyes:

So again, if you want to understand me, understand this. I don't have an agenda. I talk when I feel like talking, sometimes about serious stuff and sometimes not so much. People thinking I get emotional about football topics are, shall we say, mistaken. I've got real world issues to deal with. Football doesn't register on that front :sosp:

[Marguide]

Oh, I'll tell you I'm deliberately inconsistent, fand I'll tell you why :lol:

I post here for one reason and one reason only, that being for my own amusement.

I'll talk about things that I feel strongly about if I'm in the mood. Other times, I just don't care. After all, it's just a message board. We're not changing the world here. It's for fun, or my idea of fun (which is sometimes a little offbeat from the average person) :willy_nilly:

Sometimes I feel like debating. Sometimes I don't. But even when I do, I don't go into it with the notion that I'm changing anybody's life. It's just what I happen to feel like doing.

(sadly, I'm also a huge insomniac, so sometimes it's just that it's late and what's on TV sucks, so here I sit) :(

You could get me talking on plenty of topics that I feel very strongly about - football and otherwise - but again, only if I'm in the mood. Admittedly, stupidity annoys me, and that's why I'll get into some topics if I think someone is being stupid. That's what got me into topics with KT sometimes, especially if I saw him insulting someone I respected.

And then throw in what a lot of people already know, but some don't. I was recently told that I probably have MS, weakness from which is why I'm home with a lot more time on my hands these days. Said time being spent here engaging in debate and such, though when people get ridiculous and start attributing personal motives to football opinions, it takes a lot of the fun out of it :rolleyes:

So again, if you want to understand me, understand this. I don't have an agenda. I talk when I feel like talking, sometimes about serious stuff and sometimes not so much. People thinking I get emotional about football topics are, shall we say, mistaken. I've got real world issues to deal with. Football doesn't register on that front :sosp:

Good post. I can respect those feelings, not that you need mine or anyone else's approval.

I enjoy the debate as well. And for god's sake, good luck with the MS thing. You seem the type to have the character to make the best of a bad situation. Keep the faith!

[Mr. Scot]

Good post. I can respect those feelings, not that you need mine or anyone else's approval.

I enjoy the debate as well. And for god's sake, good luck with the MS thing. You seem the type to have the character to make the best of a bad situation. Keep the faith!

Appreciated :)

I'll admit there was a time when the racism thing was a sore spot owing to the fact that a close friend of mine - who happened to be black - passed away suddenly (he was only 32). I'm one of the most outwardly unemotional people you'd ever meet, but I was a wreck for days after that :(

I remember being at his funeral and thinking about my father. My dad was a racist pretty much his whole life, but happily I took after my mom, who wasn't. Couldn't help thinking that he'd have been ashamed of me standing there weeping over a dead black man. But he wasn't "a black man" to me. He was just a man, and he was my friend.

Being called a racist (by KT, no shock) at a time when I was still mourning my friend really hit a nerve. Eventually, I got past it, but that kind of cemented a "cat/ball-of-yarn" relationship between me and him that lasted until he finally made too big an ass of himself and got banned. I tended to mess with him during the times when I thought he was at his dumbest, or was attacking someone I liked, or at times when I just happened to be feeling a tad mischievous (sad, but true) :sosp:

These days it doesn't sting when someone tries that (why should it since I know it's not true) but I'll still call someone out on him if I happen to be in the mood to do so.

You'll find I also sometimes get in the mood to write really long, heavily researched posts (look up the "head coach" threads and you'll see what I mean) :willy_nilly:

[Verge]

I don't not like Newton because he is black lol, I don't like him because he seems like a shady dick, who has one year of starting experience and has some serious issues.

[Highlandfire]

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:lurk5:

The only people I have ever seen pull the race card are in fact racist. Black, white, Green, Yellow, pink with purple polka dots, didn't matter. Sounds like Warren should join the brotherhood with undercover brother and fight the man.

Guess what warren? You are pissed because many see through Newtons Bull poo. It's not because he is black, its because many QB's before him were busts being one hit wonders and the kid has brought ALL of these red flags on himself. Oh and I don't see any other QB in this draft running around to every camera he can find and flashing that 'I can't believe I am getting away with this poo' Smile that IS disingenuous.

You sir were one of my favorite QB's of all time till you started beating your wife and now pulling the race card. I can't take from you what you did on the field, I would love for this franchise to have the next 'Warren Moon' in that regard, but personally you could get hit by a bus for all I care.

[AceMan]

I'm ready for the draft now