Julius Peppers, No Problem.

[Cat'sGrowl]

he is good, he is not elite (cole that is)

That would be a false, my good man. Trent Cole is one of the premier DE's in this league. You can research that yourself if you like.

[CRA]

That would be a false, my good man. Trent Cole is one of the premier DE's in this league. You can research that yourself if you like.

Cole is underrated and very good.....and a top DE in the NFL. But a Peppers he is not.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Cole is underrated and very good.....and a top DE in the NFL. But a Peppers he is not.

I disagree. Cole has outproduced Pepper's almost every season since he came into the league five years ago, and, like Peppers will draw double teams and will do all the extra curricular things a DE can do and do them well.

I just can't grasp where this notion that Pepper's is all world is coming from. He's great, but he isn't premier. People like to ignore the production and say that Peppers' greatness comes from the other things he does, but nothing else he does isn't anything that other great DE's don't do. It's not like he's been a freak in coverage, he hasn't been a top 5 pass rusher, he's never excelled against the run, and while he has drawn double teams and created that presence on the field, he has never been strong enough to beat them consistently.

Some will say that you gameplan "around" him, but that isn't a trait that is unique to him. Most offenses do that, they attack the side of the field with the weaker players. Julius isn't unique in his ability to do that, it's rather commonplace.

[DaCityKats]

um besides the fact he plays the run well, and can pick a ball off and crib your ass at 6'7 290. not to mention his bag of moves to get to the qb dude is a monster.

[CRA]

I disagree. Cole has outproduced Pepper's almost every season since he came into the league five years ago, and, like Peppers will draw double teams and will do all the extra curricular things a DE can do and do them well.

I just can't grasp where this notion that Pepper's is all world is coming from. He's great, but he isn't premier. People like to ignore the production and say that Peppers' greatness comes from the other things he does, but nothing else he does isn't anything that other great DE's don't do. It's not like he's been a freak in coverage, he hasn't been a top 5 pass rusher, he's never excelled against the run, and while he has drawn double teams and created that presence on the field, he has never been strong enough to beat them consistently.

Some will say that you gameplan "around" him, but that isn't a trait that is unique to him. Most offenses do that, they attack the side of the field with the weaker players. Julius isn't unique in his ability to do that, it's rather commonplace.

No, Cole hasn't taken over games to the degree Peppers did in Chicago last year.....and that doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

as far as your stats go...

Past 3 seasons (recent history)- Cole missed 1 game in those 3 years, Peppers 0.

Cole - 5 forced fumbles

Peppers - 13 forced fumbles

Cole - 0 INTs

Peppers - 4 INTs

Cole - 4 passes defended

Peppers - 19 passes defended

Cole - 31 sacks

Peppers - 33 sacks

Cole - 157 tackles (solo)

Peppers - 119 tackles

So you are claiming Cole right now is superior to Peppers? Recent history in the NFL both watching the games and the stat sheet shows Peppers makes more plays.

[chef17]

I disagree. Cole has outproduced Pepper's almost every season since he came into the league five years ago, and, like Peppers will draw double teams and will do all the extra curricular things a DE can do and do them well.

I just can't grasp where this notion that Pepper's is all world is coming from. He's great, but he isn't premier. People like to ignore the production and say that Peppers' greatness comes from the other things he does, but nothing else he does isn't anything that other great DE's don't do. It's not like he's been a freak in coverage, he hasn't been a top 5 pass rusher, he's never excelled against the run, and while he has drawn double teams and created that presence on the field, he has never been strong enough to beat them consistently.

Some will say that you gameplan "around" him, but that isn't a trait that is unique to him. Most offenses do that, they attack the side of the field with the weaker players. Julius isn't unique in his ability to do that, it's rather commonplace.

2005

Cole

46 tackles 5 sacks 1FF

Pep

50 tackles 10.5 sacks 2FF

2006

Cole

62 tackles 8 sacks 1FF

Pep

57 tackles 13 sacks 3FF

2008

Cole

77 tackles 9 sacks 2FF

Pep

51 tackles 14.5 sacks 5FF

I wouldn't say Cole outperformed Pep almost every season

[Cat'sGrowl]

No, Cole hasn't taken over games to the degree Peppers did in Chicago last year.....and that doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

as far as your stats go...

Past 3 seasons (recent history)- Cole missed 1 game in those 3 years, Peppers 0.

Cole - 5 forced fumbles

Peppers - 13 forced fumbles

Cole - 0 INTs

Peppers - 4 INTs

Cole - 4 passes defended

Peppers - 19 passes defended

Cole - 31 sacks

Peppers - 33 sacks

Cole - 157 tackles (solo)

Peppers - 119 tackles

So you are claiming Cole right now is superior to Peppers? Recent history in the NFL both watching the games and the stat sheet shows Peppers makes more plays.

The passes defensed are impressive, but the picks and the fumbles? How much of that isn't just luck? Catching a tipped ball? Forcing a fumble?

They are impressive numbers, but they can't be directly attributed to skill.

The tackles can..and the margin there is impressive, You could make the argument they are running away from Peppers, but they are doing the same thing to Cole as well..

Technically Cole has 31.5 half sacks over the past 3 seasons, and if you go back 4, he blows Peppers out of the water, as that was his 2.5 sack stat year (just to address that part of the stat sheet you listed)

[Fox007]

If you don't consider Peppers a problem, then you have a problem.

We don't care if you hate him but the fact is, he is a game changer, and every smart football fan knows this.

[DaCityKats]

dude stop reaching pep got cole.

[CRA]

The passes defensed are impressive, but the picks and the fumbles? How much of that isn't just luck? Catching a tipped ball? Forcing a fumble?

They are impressive numbers, but they can't be directly attributed to skill.

The tackles can..and the margin there is impressive, You could make the argument they are running away from Peppers, but they are doing the same thing to Cole as well..

Technically Cole has 31.5 half sacks over the past 3 seasons, and if you go back 4, he blows Peppers out of the water, as that was his 2.5 sack stat year (just to address that part of the stat sheet you listed)

Peppers doesn't just catch random tipped passes.......he jumped in front and picked off passes to the flat, batted up balls and showed his tremendous athletic ability picking it off, etc. Those are attritbuted to skill. His passes defended and INTs are glaring over Cole...and what is shows is Peppers has the ability to be used to defend things that Cole simply doesn't have the ability to do to the degree Peppers does.

FFs is partially luck.....but some DEs seem to be "luckier" than others. Take Osi for example, he makes his tackles with an emphasis on the throwing arm. That is why he gets lucky so often.

Yeah, if you go back to 4 season when Peppers physically shrank and was rumored to of played a season through health conditions....Cole only takes over 1 category from Peppers and that is sacks. That 4 seasons ago isn't reflective of what Peppers is doing in Chicago.....

bottom line is recent play does show....Cole isn't outproducing Pep like you claimed. And stat sheets never tell the full story. You need to watch Pep in Chicago more.....playing different than he did here.

[pantherclaw]

Peppers was/is/always will be a beast. He was my favorite player when he was here, my dogs name is even Julius for crying out loud. I am not going to downplay his talent, but not one player or coach knows the guy better than Jordan Gross. He will tell Chud absolutely everything he knows as far as scheming to minimalize his effectiveness. I think our oline has held up fairly well against the likes of Darnell Dockett and Clay Matthews, and when you factor in Stews emergence as a true pass catching threat out of the backfield, I think we have a lot going for us in neutralizing Peppers. Dude is a beast, but with the right schemes, he can do a vanishing act.

i don't consider all the attention he'll be getting, a vanishing act.

Yes, pep can be schemed...that'll give other talanted players on the bear defense even more of a chance to make plays.

Pep got paid cause he's worth it. He demands attention. He is easily the best defensive end that will be on that field this coming sunday.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Peppers doesn't just catch random tipped passes.......he jumped in front and picked off passes to the flat, batted up balls and showed his tremendous athletic ability picking it off, etc. Those are attritbuted to skill. His passes defended and INTs are glaring over Cole...and what is shows is Peppers has the ability to be used to defend things that Cole simply doesn't have the ability to do to the degree Peppers does.

FFs is partially luck.....but some DEs seem to be "luckier" than others. Take Osi for example, he makes his tackles with an emphasis on the throwing arm. That is why he gets lucky so often.

Yeah, if you go back to 4 season when Peppers physically shrank and was rumored to of played a season through health conditions....Cole only takes over 1 category from Peppers and that is sacks. That 4 seasons ago isn't reflective of what Peppers is doing in Chicago.....

bottom line is recent play does show....Cole isn't outproducing Pep like you claimed. And stat sheets never tell the full story. You need to watch Pep in Chicago more.....playing different than he did here.

You can guarantee that all 4 of those INT's were coverage picks?

Just seeking context.

So are you saying that Peppers isn't as good as some thought he was while he was here? That's part of what I'm addressing. The idea that he was some legendary player here in Carolina, when he wasn't. I've already said Pepper's has improved since he went to Chicago, but there have been such an emergence of great DE's in the league recently, I just don't think he is Top 5-especially if you factor in the OLB/DE hybrids-this whole argument doesn't fall on Cole.

[CRA]

You can guarantee that all 4 of those INT's were coverage picks?

Just seeking context.

So are you saying that Peppers isn't as good as some thought he was while he was here? That's part of what I'm addressing. The idea that he was some legendary player here in Carolina, when he wasn't. I've already said Pepper's has improved since he went to Chicago, but there have been such an emergence of great DE's in the league recently, I just don't think he is Top 5-especially if you factor in the OLB/DE hybrids-this whole argument doesn't fall on Cole.

Not all were coverage picks.....they weren't "lucky". Peppers is a freak of nature and those were often displays of it.

I am saying Peppers is playing great right now since arriving in Chicago. While in Carolina, he was flawed.....but with his flaws he could still dominate. He didn't show up every week....but neither do guys with "nonstop" motors like Allen.

Peppers isn't a legend. He was the best DE our franchise has seen.....and one of the best athletes to play the position in the NFL.

I don't include guys playing in 3-4s in coversations with guys in 4-3s. Different positions really. Some guys simply fit one scheme and not the other. There are just too many OLBs that you can't compare to DEs or vice versa.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Not all were coverage picks.....they weren't "lucky". Peppers is a freak of nature and those were often displays of it.

I am saying Peppers is playing great right now since arriving in Chicago. While in Carolina, he was flawed.....but with his flaws he could still dominate. He didn't show up every week....but neither do guys with "nonstop" motors like Allen.

Peppers isn't a legend. He was the best DE our franchise has seen.....and one of the best athletes to play the position in the NFL.

I don't include guys playing in 3-4s in coversations with guys in 4-3s. Different positions really. Some guys simply fit one scheme and not the other. There are just too many OLBs that you can't compare to DEs or vice versa.

I'm not arguing this. The term "freak" and all this other stuff that gets applied to Pep because of his tangibles though, that's part of the issue.

People keep putting Peppers in a class of his own because he's a "freak", they then justify him when he fails to produce by saying he doesn't care.

I'm suggesting that maybe he cares, and that his tangibles are overrated. It seems like "common knowledge" that having great physical traits doesn't make you a great football player, then people go and place Peppers on a pedestool because of his physical traits without seeing that other's are outperforming him, which, to reiterate, they then go on to justify by saying "well he just wasn't playing hard"