About the Cam pick...

[mav1234]

Dan Marion? Dan Marino? He wasn't taken #1, and you wouldn't find many people that would argue that his lack of Super Bowl wins is due to him being a bad QB. also he did go to the Superbowl, just didn't win.

It'd be fine and grand to wait for a QB to drop into your lap, but lately many of the top teams have been using 1st round draft picks on QBs and those QBs have had success. I don't think it should make a difference whether the guy was taken #1 or #10 or #32, if he's a team's first pick it means something about what they think he can do and what they plan to do with that player.

Anyway, I wanted a defensive player, but it didn't happen.

I'm glad it didn't, because Cam is looking great for a rookie. I have no idea if he'll be Peyton Manning, but he doesn't need to be...

[frash.exe]

lol

what if we traded down to 24 and drafted newton?

[mav1234]

Three time Super Bowl champions includes Tom Brady, 7th rounder.

Kurt Warner, undrafted. won one, been to two more.

Joe Montana 82nd. 4 Super Bowls.

Big Ben, 11th. won 2 already

Bret Farve, 2nd round

Aaron Rodgers, 24th. Superbowl, 8-0

Drew Brees, 2nd

Jake Delhomme, our very own made it, he was undrafted.

Etc...the list goes on.

on the other hand, here's the list of the last buncha QBs to win the Superbowl and where they were drafted

2007 - Manning, first round

2008 - Manning, first round

2009 - Big Ben, first round

2010 - Brees, 2nd round

2011 - Rodgers, 1st round

So of the last 5 QBs to win the Superbowl, 4 were drafted in the first round, 2 were taken first overall. The other two were still selected as *the* future of their franchises at their position, so to me it doesn't matter where in the 1st round they were taken.

IMO, with the emphasis on passing and the way rules have changed, you do want a top flight QB to win consistently in this league. So, if you need a QB and you feel the guy at #1 can be that QB, you take him.

lol

what if we traded down to 24 and drafted newton?

or a better question

if Cam was undrafted, or drafted where Brady was, would his play then suggest to you we are OK at QB?

[realtriumph]

Dan Marion? Dan Marino? He wasn't taken #1, and you wouldn't find many people that would argue that his lack of Super Bowl wins is due to him being a bad QB

It'd be fine and grand to wait for a QB to drop into your lap, but lately many of the top teams have been using 1st round draft picks on QBs and those QBs have had success. I don't think it should make a difference whether the guy was taken #1 or #10 or #32, if he's a team's first pick it means something about what they think he can do and what they plan to do with that player.

Anyway, I wanted a defensive player, but it didn't happen.

I'm glad it didn't, because Cam is looking great for a rookie. I have no idea if he'll be Peyton Manning, but he doesn't need to be...

Excuse me I made one mistake. All the rest should be pretty accurate though. He was 4th round. And that goes on to prove the point I suppose.

Mav I'm not saying he's a bad quarterback. I'm just pointing out the fact #1 draft picks are over-hyped and over valued. That actually goes to prove my point. Yeah there were plenty of first rounders, but not #1 overall which is what I was talking about.

We had the option to trade down and get a QB in the lower spots or later rounds and still get AJ. I remember people wanting Dalton. Personally I never paid attention to him but I bet money we'd be winning if we did that and got AJ, got an experienced coach and got us an O-man we would be winning.

Character, leadership, and ability to motivate, earn your team mates trust and respect, as well as learn NFL style defenses, and become a perfectionist and specialist in the position is everything in my opinion. Consistency. And I just don't think that's something you can easily judge.

Smith turned out to have good character after all imo. He still does stupid thinks, but makes up for it big time. He makes you love him. He does his job. Takes up for Cam. He looked like he was going to rip a reporter's head off earlier in the year.

I don't know what's going on in the Carolina locker room and honestly I think that's why QB's are a lottery pick. It's all about. Once they get here. How they mesh. How they handle it at this level. You're dealing with grown man, not kids anymore. So it's tougher.

[mav1234]

You don't need a QB at #1 overall to win in this league but it's certainly looking like you either need to get pretty lucky or get one in the first round. I see no reason why we should have passed on him at this point. Obviously at the time I did but that doesn't matter, I was clearly wrong.

To me whether you take a QB at #1, #3, #14, or #24... when you take a QB in the first round you are investing pretty much the same thing in them as far as the future of your team. Obviously it's quite a bit different in terms of money and what the team is already around them, but to me, both Cam and Rodgers were selected to do the same thing: lead their franchises.

[footballisasport]

]Simple. Because #1 draft pick QB's are on average more bust than good and because I didn't want to take another chance with yet another rookie QB.

Because the best QB's in the league right now, and in the past decade and in history, imo, didn't go first. Brady was a 7th rounder. Aaron was 24th.Drew Brees not a top pick.

So, it's clear u didn't want a QB as a first round pick but u got one. Are u going to sit and pick him apart over-looking the other more glaring issues of ur team? Or are u going to try and find a way to defend ur feelings about this team choosing a rookie QB in the first round by trying to associate all of the offensive problems to Cam.

I like the fact that Cam Newton had a perfect record. That's pretty impressive. But with so many QB's looking so different in the NFL than they do in college, you just never know. He gave me the impression of your Bret Farve, love the spotlight type dude. He still gives me that impression. But if he can back it up with numbers and wins, I don't care. I can get behind him. But so far he's been inconsistent and not a winner in the 4th when needing to be clutch.

And I'm not sure why folks are so quick to want to sit and be so critical towards a person for being who they are. Cam doesn't seem to like the spotlight anymore than Tom Brady or any other QB. I don't see him doing things to get attention outside of enjoying the game. So he does the Superman thing when he wins. Who cares. Eventually he'll grow tired of it and move on. What u may see as a guy "loving the spotlight." I see as a kid loving and enjoying what he does for a living.

I also believe if you want to be a good leader, which is what the QB position requires, you have to be able to see things from the vets perspective. Some of them really bust their ass to get there. You have to earn their respect and prove yourself over and over by doing the same and earning your start. You have to beat somebody to be considered the better guy, and someone that already has some credit. Most top draft picks aside from Manning and Eli don't have that humble character and leadership qualities that's needed anymore.

And let's be honest, there is no blue-print for making an elite QB. Some have been drafted high. Some have been drafted middle and low. Some sat behind a Vets and learned and others started right away. And with every situation, some have succeed and some haven't.

I seriously doubt Aaron Rogers learnt anything that made him the QB he is today from Brett Farve. Especially since Brett didn't seem to go out of his way to take Aaron under his wings. I honestly believe that it's a combination of adapting to the speed and spotlight of the NFL style of play that can make or break a QB. And most of all a good solid team that respects u and trust you, and time. Sadly, time isn't what a lot of these new rookie QBs are given. Especially when u have a media who likes to dictate the success or failure of them based on their biases.

[chef17]

You can't say acting like your Superman isn't trying to draw attention to yourself and loving the spotlight. That is the whole reason they celebrate after all.

And how in the hell does the media dictate the success or failure of a QB?

[realtriumph]

So, it's clear u didn't want a QB as a first round pick but u got one. Are u going to sit and pick him apart over-looking the other more glaring issues of ur team? Or are u going to try and find a way to defend ur feelings about this team choosing a rookie QB in the first round by trying to associate all of the offensive problems to Cam.

And I'm not sure why folks are so quick to want to sit and be so critical towards a person for being who they are. Cam doesn't seem to like the spotlight anymore than Tom Brady or any other QB. I don't see him doing things to get attention outside of enjoying the game. So he does the Superman thing when he wins. Who cares. Eventually he'll grow tired of it and move on. What u may see as a guy "loving the spotlight." I see as a kid loving and enjoying what he does for a living.

And let's be honest, there is no blue-print for making an elite QB. Some have been drafted high. Some have been drafted middle and low. Some sat behind a Vets and learned and others started right away. And with every situation, some have succeed and some haven't.

I seriously doubt Aaron Rogers learnt anything that made him the QB he is today from Brett Farve. Especially since Brett didn't seem to go out of his way to take Aaron under his wings. I honestly believe that it's a combination of adapting to the speed and spotlight of the NFL style of play that can make or break a QB. And most of all a good solid team that respects u and trust you, and time. Sadly, time isn't what a lot of these new rookie QBs are given. Especially when u have a media who likes to dictate the success or failure of them based on their biases.

You are under the impression that I am picking him apart. I'm not. You think there are other glaring problems on our team, while I see no greater glaring problem.

He's the only person that can solely improve himself to cross us over in the W category and he's proven that twice this year. There is nothing a team can do to win a game with a QB who is not playing good enough to win. Until the guy starts playing a complete game all the way through, over and over and gets his numbers consistent how can you even tell what other problems you have on your team?

So far the only times he did that we won! That's your first clue right there.

I disagree with everyone who says he's not the main reason we lost our games. It's what I believe. The numbers back it up. If I believe he's the main reason, I gotta fix the main problem first in order for me to see what the hell else is wrong.

And as far as this year goes, there's no one other guy on our team that can bring his own play up to cross us over into the win column. The QB. He's the one that if he's playing bad, his team is going to lose almost every time.

Unless you are rushing team. And we are not. So until I get consistency at the QB position, I have no idea where the rest of my team actually stands. He's the pillar unfortunately due to how we decided to build this team.

On the defensive side my defense is ranked 18th, but I also know there's little I can do about it until Beason gets back and draft time. For what they have they have played good enough to win every game this season.

My QB has not. He has not been good when tied or down in the 4th quarter. I have no idea what happened today. I didn't expect that bad a performance but I expected a blow out with a turnover and bad field position.

It's also glaringly obvious we need a punt returner. AE experiment is another major failure. Once again, not much you can do here either right now.

You wanna talk about that instead? Or do you wanna talk about something that needs to be fixed regardless?

[panthers55]

Mama said there would be days like this. Newton goes from rookie phenom to bad pick in one game. Everyone wondered what would happen to the huddle when Cam came down to earth and played like a rookie and had a bad game. We saw it in the past 12 hours. On to Detroit and the next challenge. An opportunity for redemption or another saga in self mutilation of the team that began the year with so much promise. Better days may be ahead but right now it is pretty much a trainwreck.

[Sloth]

PFFL's whining about wanting a white QB/wanting to rub noses with Matt Moore derail attempt aside, I think there were quite a few coaches that would have balked at picking Newton. There wasn't going to be a middle ground with him, biggest boom or bust pick in a while, and they'd have to decide if they want to chain themselves to a one year spread QB with a storm of controversy over him.

I'm not sold on Rivera as a coach at all, but think he deserves a lot of credit for having the balls to make the pick he did.

[realtriumph]

Mama said there would be days like this. Newton goes from rookie phenom to bad pick in one game. Everyone wondered what would happen to the huddle when Cam came down to earth and played like a rookie and had a bad game. We saw it in the past 12 hours. On to Detroit and the next challenge. An opportunity for redemption or another saga in self mutilation of the team that began the year with so much promise. Better days may be ahead but right now it is pretty much a trainwreck.

He's not a bad pick yet. He's a rookie QB. Most people just didn't want to face the numbers earlier. But this is not a surprise for me. Cam has been playing like a rookie.

Everybody's going off of hype not facts. Well we took on the Super Bowl Champs....the Super Bowl champs have the 30th worse ranked defense in the league. When we played them they were supposed to be the best. So does Arizona. So we were supposed to put up that many yards on them. Most teams do. It didn't become clear until later in the season where the teams we faced stood. Titans had a balanced team and a decent D. Atlanta is too. Saints.

The rest of those defenses we faced?

Arizona: 27th

GB: 30th

Saints: 19th

Minnesota: 23rd

Chicago: 25th

Tennessee: 15th

Atlanta: 14th

Washington:12th

Jaguars:5th

So really most of the teams we played against had poo defenses. It's not surprising that we got a lot of yards and points on them. But we beat the 2 best defenses we played. They have the most inefficient offenses we faced: Washington (30th) Jaguars(26th).

Their defenses did bring our points per game down. It brought our yards number down. But the reason we beat them...is because their offenses are even more inefficient than ours. They did worse against our defense, than our offense did against theirs.

-We struggled most against balanced teams with average defenses.

-We have a below average defense..we dropped to 20th today.

-And are now ranked 25th in scoring efficiency.

We're about to face the following defenses:

#7

#1

#14

#19

#29

#31(twice).

Detroit and Houston also have very efficient offenses. We have yet to play a GOOD all around team this year. These two will be the first. Saints have a far more efficient offense than us. Atlanta is still balanced. Tampa and Indy we can hang with. We have the better defense. And more efficient offense.

But when we play the Texans and Lions....it's going to be very ugly for us and for our offense.

Texans # 5 offense and # 1 defense

Lions # 4 offense #7 defense

So whatever your opinion might be of us against the Titans today....brace yourselves. And on top of scoring inefficiency we have the worst sack rating, penalties and interceptions in the league.

[chef17]

He's not a bad pick yet. He's a rookie QB. Most people just didn't want to face the numbers earlier. But this is not a surprise for me. Cam has been playing like a rookie.

Everybody's going off of hype not facts. Well we took on the Super Bowl Champs....the Super Bowl champs have the 30th worse ranked defense in the league. When we played them they were supposed to be the best. So does Arizona. So we were supposed to put up that many yards on them. Most teams do. It didn't become clear until later in the season where the teams we faced stood. Titans had a balanced team and a decent D. Atlanta is too. Saints.

The rest of those defenses we faced?

Arizona: 27th

GB: 30th

Saints: 19th

Minnesota: 23rd

Chicago: 25th

Tennessee: 15th

Atlanta: 14th

Washington:12th

Jaguars:5th

So really most of the teams we played against had poo defenses. It's not surprising that we got a lot of yards and points on them. But we beat the 2 best defenses we played. They have the most inefficient offenses we faced: Washington (30th) Jaguars(26th).

Their defenses did bring our points per game down. It brought our yards number down. But the reason we beat them...is because their offenses are even more inefficient than ours. They did worse against our defense, than our offense did against theirs.

-We struggled most against balanced teams with average defenses.

-We have a below average defense..we dropped to 20th today.

-And are now ranked 25th in scoring efficiency.

We're about to face the following defenses:

#7

#1

#14

#19

#29

#31(twice).

Detroit and Houston also have very efficient offenses. We have yet to play a GOOD all around team this year. These two will be the first. Saints have a far more efficient offense than us. Atlanta is still balanced. Tampa and Indy we can hang with. We have the better defense. And more efficient offense.

But when we play the Texans and Lions....it's going to be very ugly for us and for our offense.

Texans # 5 offense and # 1 defense

Lions # 4 offense #7 defense

So whatever your opinion might be of us against the Titans today....brace yourselves. And on top of scoring inefficiency we have the worst sack rating, penalties and interceptions in the league.

How exactly do we have the worst interceptions in the league when multiple teams have more than us?

[realtriumph]

How exactly do we have the worst interceptions in the league when multiple teams have more than us?

They changed throughout the day man. I know we are one of the worst ranked. I keep most of this in my head. There's only so much a man can do. You can all start pitching in any time. But don't ignore everything else I just said because of that one point.

Our efficiency was ranked 29th 2 hours ago. Not everybody finished updating. Now we are 25th. It will change slightly again tomorrow.

PS: You could at least post the updated rank when you do that: Tied for 25th with 10 now.

[chef17]

The rest of your post is based on inefficient offenses which we disagree on no point in continuing that.

We are tied for 18 for sacks

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&tabSeq=2&season=2011&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=true

And tied for 21 in INT

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=2&season=2011&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=true

While neither are very good they aren't as bad as you make them seem