Anyone know the cap hit if we waive d-will at season's end?

[nosuchthingasapanther]

Thanks for solidifying my point! I appreciate it.

D-Will is the better blocker & receiver as well.

that would explain why he has less playing time than Stewart.

[DawgzLife]

that would explain why he has less playing time than Stewart.

Please back that up with proof or the statement is meaningless.

[DawgzLife]

that would explain why he has less playing time than Stewart.

Ok, I found it for you:

Panthers RBs DeAngelo Williams 35 snaps and Jonathan Stewart 34 snaps.

How does this equate to LESS playing time than Stewart? :confused:

[nosuchthingasapanther]

Ok, I found it for you:

Panthers RBs DeAngelo Williams 35 snaps and Jonathan Stewart 34 snaps.

How does this equate to LESS playing time than Stewart? :confused:

i'm refering to to the entire season. per profootballfocus...

week 8 -

Vikings 24, Panthers 21

Devin Aromashodu led the Vikings in targets in Week 7 and paced the offense in snaps this week. With Bernard Berrian out of the picture, Aromashodu handled 61 snaps this week after a 60-snap Week 7. Michael Jenkins was in on 49 plays, while Percy Harvin racked up 30. Greg Camarillo (seven snaps) and Stephen Burton (two) saw some action, as well. QB/WR Joe Webb was on the field for two plays. Visanthe Shiancoe was on the field for 42 plays, beating out Jim Kleinsasser’s 29 and Kyle Rudolph’s 26. Adrian Peterson managed 44 snaps and Toby Gerhart was in on 14 plays.

Steve Smith’s 61 snaps led the team’s offensive skill position players in Week 8. Legedu Naanee handled 58 plays and Brandon LaFell was in on 40. Seyi Ajirotutu’s one snap gives him five on the year. Greg Olsen worked 55 snaps, while Jeremy Shockey was in on 30. Jonathan Stewart’s 42 snaps led the backers, with DeAngelo Williams well behind at 23. Stewart holds a 295-to-208 edge on Williams this season.

and after last week...

Titans 30, Panthers 3

Damian Williams led the Tennessee wide receivers in snaps for the third week in a row, this time with 49 of a possible 63. Nate Washington was in on 44 plays and Lavelle Hawkins handled 24. Marc Mariani run blocked on all nine of his snaps and Donnie Avery was on the field for five plays. Craig Stevens racked up 43 snaps, pacing the tight ends for the second week in a row. Jared Cook ran a pass route on 21 of his 24 snaps. Daniel Graham saw the field for 18 plays. Chris Johnson’s 43 snaps led the backfield. Javon Ringer chipped in on 20 plays.

Legedu Naanee handled 62 Week 10 snaps to lead the Panthers’ offense. Steve Smith was in on 60 plays and Brandon LaFell handled 47. Seyi Ajirotutu played more than one snap for the first time this season with two. Greg Olsen paced the tight ends with 61 snaps. Jeremy Shockey was in on 14 plays and Ben Hartsock added four. Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams split the backfield duties once again. The Panthers passed on 28 of Stewart’s 33 snaps and on 22 of Williams’ 31 snaps.

on the sesason, stewart has played 328 snaps to williams's 239.

i can take the time to break down game by game snap counts if you want, but sometimes i wonder what the hell some people are seeing when they watch the games. the lopsided playing time was obvious from game one.

[DawgzLife]

i'm refering to to the entire season. per profootballfocus...on the sesason, stewart has played 328 snaps to williams's 239.

i can take the time to break down game by game snap counts if you want, but sometimes i wonder what the hell some people are seeing when they watch the games. the lopsided playing time was obvious from game one.

Okay, for the whole season, you are correct; I thought you meant last game. Interesting that PFF would have both sets of stats (your Stewart 33 snaps; D-Will 31 & in another place on their site Stewart 34 snaps; D-Will 35). If you would like to watch every single snap again, feel free...I'd probably trust your count better than PFF.

For the season, Stewart has 27% more snaps, but only 9% more ball-in-hand plays; receiving is really dependant on if a WR/TE is open & checkdown needed.

Interesting that D-Will has more yards & a higher YPC average rushing; they have given D-Will the ball 83 times vs. Stew 75 times, these are designed runs. Stew does have 27 rec to D-Will's 10 tho. You get 'lop-sided' over a 9% difference in combined carries/receptions, or just being in the formation, which would be the 27% difference? D-Will is 12% more productive in the rushing game & Stew is a more productive receiver; check-downs, which makes sense since he has been on the field more, yet does not get as many carries...why is that? Again, RB rec is more about who else is not open.

The discussion was on the better RB. I see a RB's main jobs as blocking on pass plays & running on run plays. Stew has missed some critical blocks (you will see those as you re-watch the snaps), but the coaches have kept him on the field more. D-Will has also been a more effective runner (not by much, but still more effective). I do not attribute our coaching staff's decision to keep Stew on the field as evidence of anything, since the coaching staff as a whole can't even find a way to get LaFell on the field for designed pass plays vs. Nanee (who has a lot of drops or is out of position causing Ints)...I think player selection is a weakness of Rivera's at this point.

So what is the conclusion. Stew has more snaps, D-Will has more carries. We are lucky to have 2 great RBs, but I think D-Will is the more complete RB at this point. Each has special gifts & abilites, but get a similar result. To me it comes down to trust & Stew has fumbled, which is the death knell for a RB. Over the same 4 years Stew has 10 fumbles to D-Will's 4.

Edit: BTW, great post 28. It's a fun conversation if we agree or not.

[pantherclaw]

lol pantherclaw makes the worst arguments on this board besides PFFL's 18 accounts

good job D Will. you carved out a better rushing career here than Anthony Johnson, Tim Biakabutuka, DeShaun Foster, and Stephen Davis, the latter of which had one very good seasonal performance before struggling with injuries because you were in your 30s already. Here's a huge fuging contract we know you won't be able to fulfill because you managed to be the first panthers running back to rush for over 1000 yards in 2 seasons.

like i said, if he had gotten extended 2 years ago, which the panthers do take care of their own, everyone would be alright with it.

I realize that being the best in franchise history isn't HOF worthy.

He is one of the best backs in the league. Ya gotta pay to keep that, regardless of whether he's utilized or not.

Weak argument on your part. Not even an A for effort.

[pantherclaw]

The panthers won't have two big contracts at the running back position.

So prepare yourselves for the end of one of them, most likely williams, unless he signs a smaller deal to stay with the team.

[Ja Rhule]

Where the hell do you get this? His signing bonus is prorated over 5 years, if we cut him after 2 we still have 3/5 of his signing bonus to deal with as a cap hit. That's 9.6 million.

Where the hell u get it that it prorated over 5 years? I cannot find it anywhere... He got $21 million guaranteed, $16 million signing bonus and $5 million 2nd year base salary. Means if we cut him after next season, he got all his guaranteed money... means we own him "0". Thats only if its not prorated over 5 years. Per rotoworld.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

Where the hell u get it that it prorated over 5 years? I cannot find it anywhere... He got $21 million guaranteed, $16 million signing bonus and $5 million 2nd year base salary. Means if we cut him after next season, he got all his guaranteed money... means we own him "0". Thats only if its not prorated over 5 years. Per rotoworld.

All signing bonuses are prorated over the life of the contract, up to 5 years. The cap hit anyway, the actual cash in hand is paid immediately. This is all explained in the new CBA you can google it if you want a copy.

[Kevin Greene]

All signing bonuses are prorated over the life of the contract, up to 5 years. The cap hit anyway, the actual cash in hand is paid immediately. This is all explained in the new CBA you can google it if you want a copy.

They are pro rated over 5 years as long as the contract is in effect 5 years. Cut a player and guess what, pay the cap man. Depending on when a player is cut, it may be spread over 2 years.

[Ja Rhule]

All signing bonuses are prorated over the life of the contract, up to 5 years. The cap hit anyway, the actual cash in hand is paid immediately. This is all explained in the new CBA you can google it if you want a copy.

Uh had no idea. It might be cheaper to cut him if he sucks next year as well. $3m if cut or $9m if not. Considering that NFL cap will be around $145 millions, $3m is almost nothing.

[Ja Rhule]

They are pro rated over 5 years as long as the contract is in effect 5 years. Cut a player and guess what, pay the cap man. Depending on when a player is cut, it may be spread over 2 years.

Oh yea, I heard something about that... All I know is that he still has $5m guaranteed next year... after that, no more guaranteed money. I heard Adam Schefter go over his contract numbers back when DWill got signed, Adam said if we cut DWill after 2 years, future salary cap should not be effected.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

If we cut/trade DWill in 2013 prior to June 1st: 9.6 million cap hit for 2013

If we cut/trade DWill in 2013 after June 1st: 3.2 million cap hit for 2013 and 6.4 million cap hit for 2014

It's the same 9.6 million either way, the only thing that changes is when exactly it hits the cap.

[Ja Rhule]

If we cut/trade DWill in 2013 prior to June 1st: 9.6 million cap hit for 2013

If we cut/trade DWill in 2013 after June 1st: 3.2 million cap hit for 2013 and 6.4 million cap hit for 2014

It's the same 9.6 million either way, the only thing that changes is when exactly it hits the cap.

So its Delhomme dejavu...