How stupid are the skins..

[carpanfan96]

Getting rid of Campbell in favor of Colt Brennan would be the definition of lunacy.

Agreed, Saying that move would be stupid wouldn't do the move justice. So Lunacy works perfectly imo. They would be absolutely insane to get rid of Campbell because of Brennan.

[carpanfan96]

Campbell is not their guy and his "class" will be rewarded when he's let go at the end of next season.

And hopefully someone signs him to start, because he's shown some class with the way he's handled the potential trade. Understands he's an employee and gets payed to do a job regardless of what upper management thinks. Hell Reeves tried to get rid of freaking elway, but he came back and was like it is what it is, never really liked Reeves but that's besides the point. You don't have to like your boss.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

First off I would like to say, nothing is really working for the skins, so if they want to go out and spend money then good for them but to address the Quarterback situation. I would take Leftwich to back up Delhomme and Campbell to battle for the starting Quarterback position against Delhomme. Leftwich was a good Quarterback in 2003, 2004, and 2005 but then Garrard came into Jacksonville, took Leftwich's spot as starting Quarterback then Leftwich was let go, picked up by Atlanta, then let go again and picked up by Pitt, and now he is a free agent. But stat wise they both look like this.

JAKE DELHOMME-16 Games---------JASON CAMPBELL-16 Games

PASSING STATS-------------------- PASSING STATS

246- Completions ------------------------- 315- Completions

414- Attempts -------------------------- 506- Attempts

59.4- Completion Percentage-------------62.3- Completion Percentage

3,288- Yards---------------------- 3,245- Yards

7.9- Avg Yards Per Pass ---------- 6.4- Avg Yards Per Pass

15- Touchdowns ----------------- 13 Touchdowns

65- Longest Pass------------------------ 67- Longest Pass

12- Interceptions------------------------ 6- Interceptions

84.7- Passer Rating -------------- 84.3- Passer Rating

RUSHING STATS----------------- RUSHING STATS

JAKE DELHOMME-------------------------JASON CAMPBELL

20- Attempts--------------------------47- Attempts

21- Yards-----------------------------258- Yards

1.1- Avg Per Run----------------------5.5- Avg Per Run

12- Longest Run-----------------------23- Longest Run

2- Rushing TD's ----------------1- Rushing TD

2- Fumbles--------------------------- 0- Fumbles

1- Fumbles Lost-----------------------0- Fumbles Lost

DEFENSIVE STATS

JAKE DELHOMME---------------------------- JASON CAMPBELL

0- Tackles-----------------------------------1- Tackles

0- Solo's------------------------------------ 1- Solo's

SCORING STATS

JAKE DELHOMME-------------------------------JASON CAMPBELL

2- Rushing TD's--------------------------1- Rushing TD's

2- Total TD's -------------------------1- Total TD's

12- Total Pts -------------------------6- Total Pts

OVERALL

JAKE DELHOMME-----------------------------JASON CAMPBELL

8- Stats Won-----------------------------------13- Stats Won

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Byron Leftwich did not play enough games in 2008 to compare his stats to Jason Campbell or Jake Delhomme, but I can say this.... IF Jason Campbell somehow became a Panther it would make for a hell of a training camp and preseason Quarterback competition.

[panthers55]

First off I would like to say, nothing is really working for the skins, so if they want to go out and spend money then good for them but to address the Quarterback situation. I would take Leftwich to back up Delhomme and Campbell to battle for the starting Quarterback position against Delhomme. Leftwich was a good Quarterback in 2003, 2004, and 2005 but then Garrard came into Jacksonville, took Leftwich's spot as starting Quarterback then Leftwich was let go, picked up by Atlanta, then let go again and picked up by Pitt, and now he is a free agent. But stat wise they both look like this.

JAKE DELHOMME- 16 Games JASON CAMPBELL- 16 Games

PASSING STATS PASSING STATS

246- Completions ------------------------- 315- Completions

414- Attempts -------------------------- 506- Attempts

59.4- Completion Percentage------------- 62.3- Completion Percentage

3,288- Yards---------------------- 3,245- Yards

7.9- Avg Yards Per Pass ---------- 6.4- Avg Yards Per Pass

15- Touchdowns ----------------- 13 Touchdowns

65- Longest Pass------------------------ 67- Longest Pass

12- Interceptions------------------------ 6- Interceptions

84.7- Passer Rating -------------- 84.3- Passer Rating

RUSHING STATS RUSHING STATS

20- Attempts----------------------------- 47- Attempts 21- Yards-------------------------------- 258- Yards

1.1- Avg Per Run------------------------- 5.5- Avg Per Run

12- Longest Run------------------------- 23- Longest Run

2- Rushing TD's ------------------- 1- Rushing TD

2- Fumbles------------------------------ 0- Fumbles

1- Fumbles Lost------------------------- 0- Fumbles Lost

DEFENSIVE STATS

JAKE DELHOMME JASON CAMPBELL

0- Tackles----------------------------------- 1- Tackles

0- Solo's------------------------------------- 1- Solo's

SCORING STATS

JAKE DELHOMME JASON CAMPBELL

2- Rushing TD's-------------------------- 1- Rushing TD's

2- Total TD's ------------------------- 1- Total TD's

12- Total Pts ------------------------- 6- Total Pts

OVERALL

JAKE DELHOMME JASON CAMPBELL

8- Stats Won----------------------------------- 13- Stats Won

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Byron Leftwich did not play enough games in 2008 to compare his stats to Jason Campbell or Jake Delhomme, but I can say this.... IF Jason Campbell somehow became a Panther it would make for a hell of a training camp and preseason Quarterback competition.

Campbell has more potential than many folks think and needs a good stable situation to grow and learn. Is he better than Jake? Both had issues last year. Campbell was learning a new system and Jake was recovering from missing a year and elbow surgery. This year will be a better test when both are presumably healthy and Campbell has some experience with Zorn's offense.

As for the stats, you are using quantity stats not quality stats. Plus you counted them more than once on some of them. For example attempts and completions are really only relevant when you look at number of completions as a percentage of attempts. So completion percentage takes both these numbers into account in now a meaningful fashion. Just looking at attempts or completions in isolation is largely irrelevant.

Total yards is not very useful either but yards as a function of attempts is very useful. Tds are better compared as a ratio to interceptions or to total attempts. For example throwing 15 TDs and 3 Ints is much better in my mind than a guy who throws 20 TDS and 25 Ints. But if you look at them in isolation the 20 looks better than the 15. Plus if a guy throws 30 TDs in 600 attempts he is throwing a TD for every 20 attempts. A guy who throws 10 TDs in 200 attempts has the same ratio of 1 TD per 20 attempts. So he is just as efficient although the overal numbers are less.

If you are using rushing stats include the number of sacks yards lost so you get a total of net yards rushing.

Some of the other ones you used are pretty useless as well. Total points? Defensive tackles? Longest completion?

I bring this up not to bust on you but to discuss stats that matter versus those that don't. We could discuss number of passes over 20 yards or 40 yards, number of sacks surrendered or a ton of other stats but many of them are tied into other stats or not that important. For example the guy who throws a lot so deep passes wil likely have a high yards per attempts as long as he is completing over 50 % of his passes.

To me the comparison should be:

completion percentage- advantage Campbell

YPA- advantage Delhomme

TDs as a function of Attempts- advantage Delhomme

TDS as a function of Interceptions- Advantage Campbell

Passer rating- even

These are enough to rate a quarterback and suggest they are close in ability.

There are other stats which you didn't mention which are often telling regarding wins and losses. They aren't totally dependent on the quarterback but the quarterback as the head of the offense has the most to do with these stats. Things like

Passing 1st down completion rate- Panthers(5th at 36.7%), Washington (22nd at 32.4%)

Offensive points per game- advantage Panthers

4th quarter comebacks- advantage Panthers.

Again my point on this is to suggest that many of the stats you included tell little about the quarterback play or efficiency just quantity stats which means very little.

If you want to really look at a quarterback-try looking at situational stats like 3rd down and more than 6yards to go-completion rate or completion rate in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line and other things like that.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Campbell has more potential than many folks think and needs a good stable situation to grow and learn. Is he better than Jake? Both had issues last year. Campbell was learning a new system and Jake was recovering from missing a year and elbow surgery. This year will be a better test when both are presumably healthy and Campbell has some experience with Zorn's offense.

As for the stats, you are using quantity stats not quality stats. Plus you counted them more than once on some of them. For example attempts and completions are really only relevant when you look at number of completions as a percentage of attempts. So completion percentage takes both these numbers into account in now a meaningful fashion. Just looking at attempts or completions in isolation is largely irrelevant.

Total yards is not very useful either but yards as a function of attempts is very useful. Tds are better compared as a ratio to interceptions or to total attempts. For example throwing 15 TDs and 3 Ints is much better in my mind than a guy who throws 20 TDS and 25 Ints. But if you look at them in isolation the 20 looks better than the 15. Plus if a guy throws 30 TDs in 600 attempts he is throwing a TD for every 20 attempts. A guy who throws 10 TDs in 200 attempts has the same ratio of 1 TD per 20 attempts. So he is just as efficient although the overal numbers are less.

If you are using rushing stats include the number of sacks yards lost so you get a total of net yards rushing.

Some of the other ones you used are pretty useless as well. Total points? Defensive tackles? Longest completion?

I bring this up not to bust on you but to discuss stats that matter versus those that don't. We could discuss number of passes over 20 yards or 40 yards, number of sacks surrendered or a ton of other stats but many of them are tied into other stats or not that important. For example the guy who throws a lot so deep passes wil likely have a high yards per attempts as long as he is completing over 50 % of his passes.

To me the comparison should be:

completion percentage- advantage Campbell

YPA- advantage Delhomme

TDs as a function of Attempts- advantage Delhomme

TDS as a function of Interceptions- Advantage Campbell

Passer rating- even

These are enough to rate a quarterback and suggest they are close in ability.

There are other stats which you didn't mention which are often telling regarding wins and losses. They aren't totally dependent on the quarterback but the quarterback as the head of the offense has the most to do with these stats. Things like

Passing 1st down completion rate- Panthers(5th at 36.7%), Washington (22nd at 32.4%)

Offensive points per game- advantage Panthers

4th quarter comebacks- advantage Panthers.

Again my point on this is to suggest that many of the stats you included tell little about the quarterback play or efficiency just quantity stats which means very little.

If you want to really look at a quarterback-try looking at situational stats like 3rd down and more than 6yards to go-completion rate or completion rate in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line and other things like that.

Na I get what your saying, thanks for the help, I got all those stats from espn, and they don't have many useful things right now. I was just putting them up for show, but thanks for the help.

[pepaw]

The managements poor decisions must be God punishing their moronic fans for voting their crapolla players to the pro bowl.

[CatMan72]

First off I would like to say, nothing is really working for the skins, so if they want to go out and spend money then good for them but to address the Quarterback situation. I would take Leftwich to back up Delhomme and Campbell to battle for the starting Quarterback position against Delhomme. Leftwich was a good Quarterback in 2003, 2004, and 2005 but then Garrard came into Jacksonville, took Leftwich's spot as starting Quarterback then Leftwich was let go, picked up by Atlanta, then let go again and picked up by Pitt, and now he is a free agent. But stat wise they both look like this.

JAKE DELHOMME-16 Games---------JASON CAMPBELL-16 Games

PASSING STATS-------------------- PASSING STATS

246- Completions ------------------------- 315- Completions

414- Attempts -------------------------- 506- Attempts

59.4- Completion Percentage-------------62.3- Completion Percentage

3,288- Yards---------------------- 3,245- Yards

7.9- Avg Yards Per Pass ---------- 6.4- Avg Yards Per Pass

15- Touchdowns ----------------- 13 Touchdowns

65- Longest Pass------------------------ 67- Longest Pass

12- Interceptions------------------------ 6- Interceptions

84.7- Passer Rating -------------- 84.3- Passer Rating

RUSHING STATS----------------- RUSHING STATS

JAKE DELHOMME-------------------------JASON CAMPBELL

20- Attempts--------------------------47- Attempts

21- Yards-----------------------------258- Yards

1.1- Avg Per Run----------------------5.5- Avg Per Run

12- Longest Run-----------------------23- Longest Run

2- Rushing TD's ----------------1- Rushing TD

2- Fumbles--------------------------- 0- Fumbles

1- Fumbles Lost-----------------------0- Fumbles Lost

DEFENSIVE STATS

JAKE DELHOMME---------------------------- JASON CAMPBELL

0- Tackles-----------------------------------1- Tackles

0- Solo's------------------------------------ 1- Solo's

SCORING STATS

JAKE DELHOMME-------------------------------JASON CAMPBELL

2- Rushing TD's--------------------------1- Rushing TD's

2- Total TD's -------------------------1- Total TD's

12- Total Pts -------------------------6- Total Pts

OVERALL

JAKE DELHOMME-----------------------------JASON CAMPBELL

8- Stats Won-----------------------------------13- Stats Won

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Byron Leftwich did not play enough games in 2008 to compare his stats to Jason Campbell or Jake Delhomme, but I can say this.... IF Jason Campbell somehow became a Panther it would make for a hell of a training camp and preseason Quarterback competition.

Thanks for this, one other VERY important stat was not mentioned:

Jake = 34 w/ surgically repaired throwing arm..... Jason = 27.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Thanks for this, one other VERY important stat was not mentioned:

Jake = 34 w/ surgically repaired throwing arm..... Jason = 27.

That is very true, thank you for that.